Ah yes. I forgot they had no scales. Maybe a low dosage of salt? But even then maybe dont
Suicidal clown loaches
- Thread starter Burrell10
- Start date
The two I can find at the moment, I have the light off to try and keep them relaxed. The one upside down is the one currently freaking out and now settled in the corner upside down
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I use Aqadvisor.com for stocking/ condition compatibilities, it's really helpful. I agree 250L is not enough for 4 clown loaches, it will stunt their growth and shorten lifespan, will also be inducing stress, they are Very small for 4-5yrs old. It also has a good volume calculator, not sure that tank is even 250L tbh, looks smaller to me, or your guppies are just a fair bit larger than mine!
Temperature changes made my shrimp act strange, and my Uncle lost koi when his pond heater malfunctioned and overheated pond, he found them on bank looking like they had jumped, and the others were bumping into sides.
When my old tank sprung a leaky seal and suddenly started raining on floor, I panicked and started to scoop shrimp out into another warmer tank, and they were swimming erratically, took a good few mins for my rational brain to empty a storage box and save the water, flooring and substrate/ bacteria colony too! They were fine again in there.
I also had to replace a heater last year because the thermostat was malfunctioning, it could get warm, but wasn't always noticing the drop in temp, some mornings I'd wake up and tank had lost a degree. I'd have to lift it out of water and dunk it in again to "wake it up"
Temperature changes made my shrimp act strange, and my Uncle lost koi when his pond heater malfunctioned and overheated pond, he found them on bank looking like they had jumped, and the others were bumping into sides.
When my old tank sprung a leaky seal and suddenly started raining on floor, I panicked and started to scoop shrimp out into another warmer tank, and they were swimming erratically, took a good few mins for my rational brain to empty a storage box and save the water, flooring and substrate/ bacteria colony too! They were fine again in there.
I also had to replace a heater last year because the thermostat was malfunctioning, it could get warm, but wasn't always noticing the drop in temp, some mornings I'd wake up and tank had lost a degree. I'd have to lift it out of water and dunk it in again to "wake it up"
There is either something in the water stressing the fish, or the fish have been spooked by something and are panicking now.
How often and how do you clean the filter?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you have any cream, perfume, hand sanitiser, etc on your hands when you feed the fish or work in the tank?
Do you have buckets and hoses used specifically for the fish?
Has anyone used those items for other things in the last few weeks?
Have you added anything to the tank just before this started?
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WHAT TO DO NOW?
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.
Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This should remove anything from the water that shouldn't be there.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.
Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn.
Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.
Try to get a video of the fish so we can see the behaviour. If you use a phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen. You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
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TURNING LIGHTS ON AND OFF
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.
In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.
At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.
Try to have the lights on at the same time each day. Use a timer if possible.
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QUIET ROOMS
If the tank is in a quiet room where nobody goes, either move the tank into a more open area where more people move around it, or have things in the room that provide movement.
You can have a small television on (no sound required) and the flashing light and movement on the screen can help fish get used to movement around them.
You can tie streamers (12-18 inches long) onto the front of a fan and have the fan oscillating so the streamers wave about.
You can hang a mobile near the tank and have the fan blowing that around too.
Put a picture on the back of the tank to help the fish feel more secure.
How often and how do you clean the filter?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you have any cream, perfume, hand sanitiser, etc on your hands when you feed the fish or work in the tank?
Do you have buckets and hoses used specifically for the fish?
Has anyone used those items for other things in the last few weeks?
Have you added anything to the tank just before this started?
--------------------
WHAT TO DO NOW?
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.
Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This should remove anything from the water that shouldn't be there.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.
Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn.
Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.
Try to get a video of the fish so we can see the behaviour. If you use a phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen. You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
--------------------
TURNING LIGHTS ON AND OFF
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.
In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.
At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.
Try to have the lights on at the same time each day. Use a timer if possible.
--------------------
QUIET ROOMS
If the tank is in a quiet room where nobody goes, either move the tank into a more open area where more people move around it, or have things in the room that provide movement.
You can have a small television on (no sound required) and the flashing light and movement on the screen can help fish get used to movement around them.
You can tie streamers (12-18 inches long) onto the front of a fan and have the fan oscillating so the streamers wave about.
You can hang a mobile near the tank and have the fan blowing that around too.
Put a picture on the back of the tank to help the fish feel more secure.
DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
I expect this to be the reason only the Clowns react to something in the water.
Could it be the watercompany flushed its network ?
I’ll give everything a try to save them….
Isn’t doing that many water changes a little bad for the tank and the fish?
I clean my tank every week, one week do the substrate with a gravel sucker. The next week clean the filter in the water I’ve taken out of the tank before I throw it away. All my equipment, buckets, nets etc aren’t used for anything but my tank!
Lights-wise are turned up around the same time and that’s after the sun has rose outside so it’s not a straight change from black to light plus normally they are hiding in the pipe or in the corner where the light doesn’t hang across.
No matter where I look, I can’t seem to find a trigger for the sudden change in behaviour. Every other fish in the tank isn’t showing any signs or stress or illness.
Isn’t doing that many water changes a little bad for the tank and the fish?
I clean my tank every week, one week do the substrate with a gravel sucker. The next week clean the filter in the water I’ve taken out of the tank before I throw it away. All my equipment, buckets, nets etc aren’t used for anything but my tank!
Lights-wise are turned up around the same time and that’s after the sun has rose outside so it’s not a straight change from black to light plus normally they are hiding in the pipe or in the corner where the light doesn’t hang across.
No matter where I look, I can’t seem to find a trigger for the sudden change in behaviour. Every other fish in the tank isn’t showing any signs or stress or illness.
I did have a pet store mention this too, I do have two tanks. My other tanks have yo-yo loaches and they haven’t shown a single difference in behaviour? I clean and use all the same equipment and water source for both
You can never do "too many" water changes.
Sense they are the only fish doing this behaviour and they are scaleless, it maybe something pretty small and hard to find that is irritating them. Or it could just be a matter of that they feel claustrophobic in a small tank to them.
You throw away and replace your filter cartridge every other week?
First I think the tank is just too small and the loaches are not developing normally; perhaps even stunted. I have 6 in a 120 gallon (which is 545 liter) and after 3 years my largest loach is already moving past 6 inches. Also i consider the 120 too small and plan to move them into a 400 gallon tank. I was suppose to do it this year but due to pandemic et all i'm running a year behind. Also I'm a bit confused that your ph is 6.5 but your kh is 3. Something seems off here unless there is an additive lowering the ph.
For my tank the nitrate typically runs between 10-20; lower would be nicer and after i get them into the 400 i'll have a better system to keep the water purer but i've not noticed behavioral issue. As others said something is wrong with your water and hte fish is trying to escape and I suspect unless you solve it soon death will follow.
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Oh one other thought - if your substrate is 10 years old and you stir it up it is possible some not so pleasing bacteria was released into the tank water and that could also be part of the issue.
For my tank the nitrate typically runs between 10-20; lower would be nicer and after i get them into the 400 i'll have a better system to keep the water purer but i've not noticed behavioral issue. As others said something is wrong with your water and hte fish is trying to escape and I suspect unless you solve it soon death will follow.
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Oh one other thought - if your substrate is 10 years old and you stir it up it is possible some not so pleasing bacteria was released into the tank water and that could also be part of the issue.
My suspicion is contamination of some sort as well. The behaviour sounds very much like fish dying from being exposed to something that is toxic to them - like an ammonia spike, or if something deeply irritating to their skin/gills/etc has contaminated the tank, like bleach, hand sanitiser, or air freshener being sprayed in the same room as the tank; something is getting to these fish and driving them into a panic since they can't escape the pain/irritation. I can see why you thought it may be a parasite of some kind, I'd suspect that too.
I also think the neons in the photo look washed out and pale, and is that a gourami hiding near the substrate? Those things also make me concerned about the chances of something in the water is affecting them all, and just hitting the loaches hardest since scale-less and more sensitive.
Sounds like you do the right things when it comes to their equipment/filter etc, so other things to explore - where are the fish buckets etc stored? Are the other tanks in a different room? Could someone in the house be spraying a cleaner or air freshener anywhere in that room? A plug in air freshener? What has changed in that tank or in that room recently? Anyone else ever put their hands in the tank or feed the fish? Is your food perhaps old and expired? Fish oils can be nasty once they go rancid, and the foods don't keep forever.
These are questions for you to ask yourself to see if something may have happened BTW, not demanding you answer them to me!
The tank - any decor that could be leaching paint chemicals or similar into the water? There are lots of things that can contaminate water that we cannot test for. I would also remove some of the large ornaments, especially any that are either new and a potential source of toxins, or anything that's old and looks as though it might be crumbling or flaky. The decor is for you rather than the fish anyway, and anything suspicious needs ruling out at this stage. I'd also go and get a big bunch of fast growing stem plants like elodea/water wisteria/hornwort, some ones like that to replace the ornaments, and hopefully help improve and filter whatever water quality issues (whether that's ammonia/nitrates/a potential contaminant) or not.
Yes, in the long term, the tank won't be large enough for their lifetime, the water softness/hardness issue should be resolved - but now is not the time. The size of the tank in comparision to the size of the clowns right now isn't causing this reaction or the deaths, so let's focus on the emergency first, eh guys? No point fretting about if the fish would need a new home or larger tank in a year or two, if they continue to die at this rate.
Lastly, do you have a quarantine tank? If you have one clown that is showing the same behaviours now, I would personally want to move him to an isolated quarantine tank or temporary set up to see whether he improves that way. But I would not move him to one of your other, main tanks with other fish, for fear of spreading the issue. Can talk you through how to make a temp quarantine using a plastic storage tote if you don't have a QT.
Pretty sure he meant that he cleans the filter in the old tank water, before throwing the old tank water away.
As long as the new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine and has a similar temperature and chemistry (pH, GH & KH) to the tank water, you can change 90% of the water every day and the fish and filter bacteria will be fine.
For this situation, a 75% water change and gravel clean each day for one week, should rule out anything in the water. If the fish are still nervous and skittish after that, then something has spooked them and they are stressed out. If this is the case, then you will need to desensitize them with a TV or fan and streamers, or just spending more time in the room near the tank.
So little update… they’ve stopped going crazy but now are just floating about and laid completely drained and lifeless. I’ve done 50% changes 3 times this week.
Don’t throw away the filter cartridges, just the dirty water. My dad feed my fish while I was on holiday but this was only a month ago now and I did ask if he cleaned or did anything to the tank but said no….
The only change is a heater? The temperature hasn’t changed and I’ve checked it for damage and can’t find anything either. Has anyone experienced an issue after a new heater?
Sadly no quarantine tank. I will be investing in one now, just never had an issue I can’t solve before
Don’t throw away the filter cartridges, just the dirty water. My dad feed my fish while I was on holiday but this was only a month ago now and I did ask if he cleaned or did anything to the tank but said no….
The only change is a heater? The temperature hasn’t changed and I’ve checked it for damage and can’t find anything either. Has anyone experienced an issue after a new heater?
Sadly no quarantine tank. I will be investing in one now, just never had an issue I can’t solve before
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