Sudden Plec Death

[Bex]

My Green Phantom Louie died suddenly last night and I don't know why.

He has been fine up until about 7 last night when I noticed his belly was bloated. He was fine even in the morning as he came out for his wafers and had a good feed.

His belly was suddenly very bloated, but he was still swimming around. Up until last night he has been very very active. He was also very colourful and eating well. Whatever happened killed him within 12 hours, myabe less?

All water stats are perfect and I have also been running a Rena Filstar xP3 external for the last week so water is crystal clear.

Any ideas what could have happened to my favourite fishey?

 

[Bloo]

No ! lovely Louie sorry to hear. Bloated sounds like he could have had a bacterial infection.

did your new filter replace the old one etirely?

 

[Bex]

No Bloo, it was running alongside it as extra filtration and to help cycle it before it goes in the new tank. The bloating was very strange, very sudden and more on his chest area, kinda looked like a big bubble in his chest, very prominent.

Someone on the plecofanatics website has said it could have been a heart problem which makes the chest fill with fluid and kills rapidly and is untreatable. Up until then he had been really active, and his colours were just getting better and better. Also, his fins had grown back to almost perfect, he seemed in perfect health, and then he just died.

I'm so upset Bloo! He was a right character!

 

[KathyM]

Awww I'm so sorry. Was he in with your other ill fish?

 

[Bex]

Hi Kathy

The mollie had shimmies and I'm pretty sure that was caused by not having any salt in the water as they need salt don't they? (didn't know this at time of purchase and couldn't take him back either) No signs of anything else was wrong with him either as he was also eating up until he died. If it was bacterial he would have stopped eating wouldn't he?

Same as Louie, he was eating yesterday morning and even Tues night, he was really active, no signs of any bloating - he was sucking the glass for a while so got a good look at his belly.

Like I said, the bloating was more on his chest, and looked like a bubble. Kind of started just below his mouth and ended halfway on his belly and was very prominent.

My water is crystal clear with the second filter and had done large water change and gravel vac 2 day previous to this?

 

[KathyM]

Awww Bex, I really am sorry. I've had a look through some of your other posts about your rams being ill etc - were they all in the same tank? Maybe it's all related? Sorry, you'll have to forgive my crap memory, I can't remember what you have in with what if you get me.

 

[AlexAndCarmen]

Sorry to hear that Bex

He was a gorgeous boy. I'm really heartbroken for you.

 

[Bex]

Well, my 1 female Ram died, again no external signs and most advice given was either bacterial or just that Rams are very sensitive fish. She was also quite young and had just spawned and LFS think it was more than likely stress. The other Ram that had a large spot on his head, he's fine and spot has cleared up. Platy that had beginnings of dropsy, cured with a salt bath and he is also fine.

Tank has been treated with Myxazin and Pimafix and previously Melafix and Pimafix. Also been doing frequent water changes, plus the extra filter. Water is crystal clear? I'm sure the Mollie was because of no salt. There have been no changes in my water stats at all and no sudden rises in temp or pH etc.

It wasn't all of Louie's belly that was bloated, just the chest area and it was so sudden! Wish I had a picture, the camera I tried to use last night the battery died before I could get a decent one. It's hard to explain.

Surely, if this was bacterial I would have noticed something wrong with him, like not eating? He was quite a greedy boy so I would have noticed if he didn't eat. Whatever it was killed quick, less than 12 hours as I can't say what time he died?

Sorry to hear that Bex

He was a gorgeous boy. I'm really heartbroken for you.

Thanks! Just wish I knew what happened.

 

[Bloo]

OK, well I lost my L200 a while ago when I had an ICH outbreak - and he was also slightly bloated - but that was probably just a post death bloat. It was at the very first signs of the illness which wasn't even visible to the eye and only my loaches were flicking. I should have known something was wrong, but I really couldn't see any signs at all. It was only a few days after the L200 and 2 Red Rainbows died that the ICH appeared ever so slightly on the loaches.

So my guess it's something other than a heart problem and could rather be illness related. Keep a very close eye on your fish for any abnormal behaviour.

ps: I have to add that the L200 and Red Rainbows showed no signs of abnormal behaviour / flicking or white spots.

 

[Bex]

Hi Bloo

Just been down to my LFS and explained the whole problem and they don't think it was bacterial either. They know about my other fish problems. The fact that it was so sudden and the bloating was so quick, really like a huge bubble around his chest, they think that it might have been a twisted gut. They also reckon that if it was bacterial, he would probably have not been eating (he ate that morning)?

They said they will sell me another in a few weeks, or whenever I'm ready, at a reduced rate which is good of them seeing I'd had him for 5 weeks.

What do you think? Ever heard of that in plecs?

 

[KathyM]

I've heard of it in fish and other animals and twisted gut usually occurs (at least in other animals) from a buildup of gases (from bacteria) and diet related issues. However, I wouldn't rule out this being related to your other fish being ill - not because I think it's the same illness, but because the cause could be the same. What's in the tank and how big is it?

Edited to add: Actually if it were a twisted gut, the swelling would've been further down the body I'd imagine, not in the chest/throat area.

 

[Bloo]

Personally to be honest no - never. But that doesn't mean it's not possible. I'm going to Wholesale Tropicals tomorrow and ask them (seeing that the are plec experts)

My fish ate absolutely fine too - swimming around healthily. Next moment dead. Though it wasn't bacterial.
And within a day 3 died (the two rainbows and the L200).

But the incredibly huge sudden swelling does sound really odd I must say

ps: I know this may sound horrid - but whenever I have a fish die of unexplained reasons, I cut it open with a scalpel blade. It may not always prove cause of death, but it can often rule out some.

 

[Bex]

Thanks Bloo, I'd really appreciate it if you could ask someone there about it. The swelling was just like a big bubble in his chest, to the point where as he was sitting on the gravel, his mouth could not reach the gravel. It raised his head about 1cm off the floor!



Kathy: I don't think it was a diet problem either because we fed him quite a varied diet. On Monday he had quite a lot of cucumber (only 1 piece about 2.5" long but he munched most of it), didn't feed Tuesday and Wed morning he had some Tetra Pleco wafers. He also fed on his bogwood during that time.

The tank is a Juwel rekord 120, and I have 1 of my externals running on it alongside the internal, so water is really clean. Other tank mates are 1 Ram, 1 mollie, 2 balas (only 3-4"), 1 RTB shark (only 3cm), 4 platys, 6 tiger barbs and the Royal. Been doing regular water changes/gravel vacs cos of the 2 plecs.

All get fed a varied diet of flake, frozen and veggies. No change in any water stats at all. Only other deaths were the mollie (shimmies) and the ram (this was about a month ago I think).

I saw Louie yesterday morning when he came out for the pleco wafers and he wasn't bloated at all, so this all happened between 08:00 and 19:00 and he was dead by 07:00 this morning?

Can internal bacteria infections happen that fast with no other previous symptoms whatsoever?

 

[Bex]

Quick update, someone found this and it sounds exactly like the swelling on Louie

"Internal organ disease - such as heart problems- leading to an accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity. This leads to a balloon-shaped swelling and the abdomen feels very soft and sqidgy - unlike a tumour which tends to feel hard. No cures, and heart transplants are just not on."

Any ideas on what can suddenly cause this? I'm just clutching at any straws!

 

[KathyM]

Again though, when it says "abdomen", don't they mean the belly area? I'm really sorry, I don't know what to advise you. I'm very sorry about Louie.