Substrate

[Alexp08]

Do you have to have specific substrate luke fluorite for plants to go or can you just use typical sand or Rock substrate in a low tech tank?

 

[fluttermoth]

You can use plain gravel or sand in a low tech planted tank, yes.

 

[Alexp08]

Are there a fair amount of plants I could get? Or are my options limited with plain substrate

 

[Byron]

The substrate makes little or no difference to plant growth, provided it is not too large (nothing larger than pea gravel).  Fine gravel or sand seem to work best; sand is better for certain substrate fish.  Nutrients have to be in the water column in order to be taken up by plant roots and leaves, and the water circulates through the substrate.
 
Light and nutrients in balance are the limiting factors with plant species.
 
Byron.

 

[Alasse]

Substrate certainly can make a difference with many plants......some plants are root feeders and require a good nutrient rich substrate.
 
Sand or gravel will grow plants, but add something with some oomph to the substrate will increase growth
 
There is a reason top quality planted tanks use a enriched substrate......i never thought it made much of a difference either, until i did a few tanks with enriched sand vs plain sand/gravel.....the results can be mindblowing.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Substrate certainly can make a difference with many plants......some plants are root feeders and require a good nutrient rich substrate.

I agree with the first half - certain substrates make better homes for beneficial bacteria that can do all kinds of cool things - solubilising phosphate would be one. Substrates with a decent CEC value will hold on to nutrients allowing for variations in dosing - holidays for example.

Plants being root feeders - not so much - they're weeds, they'll feed anyway they can, besides it's wet in the soil so you're water column dosing does the same job....you just get a better quality of nutrient in a decent substrate is all.

IMO

 

[Alasse]

Well i will go by my experience....i fert my planted tanks all the same bar substrate....and the ones with nutrient rich capped substrate do far better than the ones that dont have it. The nutrients from the substrate do not reach the water column, unless you major disturb the capping.

And sorry but some plants are known root feeders.....but the choice is yours.

 

[SO19Firearms]

And sorry but some plants are known root feeders.....but the choice is yours.

That's OK, no need to apologise

There are loads of myths in the hobby and I'm sure we can bust them one by one. The hobby has come on in leaps and bounds in the past ten years, yet there are still books that say nutrients cause algae and Nitrates are bad for fish but most of these have been busted in the wider hobby thankfully. Test kits being "accurate" is still one, especially liquids over strips lol, adding an air stone if you think you have too much CO2 and heavy root feeders are the more stubborn ones because they seem to make sense

 

[Alasse]

As i said in my experience many are not myths....hence why they are still around to this day

 

[SO19Firearms]

Well i will go by my experience....i fert my planted tanks all the same bar substrate....and the ones with nutrient rich capped substrate do far better than the ones that dont have it.

 
 

As i said in my experience many are not myths....hence why they are still around to this day

Ahh kk, I didn't pick up on that. No worries.

 

[PlumbersMerchant]

If we are doing a low tech planted tank with normal gravel, Gould you just gravel vac in between your plants or right up to the base ? I don't want to disturb roots etc.

 

[Byron]

If we are doing a low tech planted tank with normal gravel, Gould you just gravel vac in between your plants or right up to the base ? I don't want to disturb roots etc.

 
It is best to leave the substrate basically alone.  The organics that accumulate down in the substrate get broken down by a host of different species of bacteria and become nutrients.  A primary nutrient is carbon as CO2; the substrate is the major source of CO2 in a tank with no added CO2 by diffusion.  And as we all know, retaining CO2 is important with plants as it is usually the nutrient in least supply if it is not being added.
 
Now, having said that, there is sometimes a good reason to dig into the open areas of substrate but not around substrate-rooted plants.  I do this in one tank, and I lightly run over the open sand in another.  I have others where that I never touch the substrate.  But you don't want the organics overpowering the system, by which I mean being much greater than what the plants and other bacteria can use, or cyanobacteria or algae can occur and nitrates may rise.  Fish species and numbers, plant species, fish feedings and plant fertilizers all factor in to this balance.
 
Byron.

 

[PlumbersMerchant]

Sorry alexp08, not meaning to take over this thread but I'm going through the same stage atm.

If the gravel size is larger is it just a case of keeping the plants in their original foam/ceramic wraps and weighing them down (if needed wih lead) ? Should they take root easily enough ?

 

[Byron]

Sorry alexp08, not meaning to take over this thread but I'm going through the same stage atm.

If the gravel size is larger is it just a case of keeping the plants in their original foam/ceramic wraps and weighing them down (if needed wih lead) ? Should they take root easily enough ?

 
The grain size of the gravel should not be too large, and here I would say that pea gravel is the largest you want with plants.  The smaller-grain gravel would be better.  I have noticed a slight difference with plant growth in pea gravel as compared to fine gravel or sand.  But perhaps the most important issue when it comes to the substrate size is the bacterial processes that occur there, as these are crucial to the health of any aquarium, plants or not.  You don't want the substrate too large (talking grain size) as food will easily get down out of range of fish and snails and it takes longer for bacteria to break it down.  This can cause pollution more rapidly.
 
With respect to plants rooting, this will obviously be easier and faster in fine substrates.  Sand or fine gravel (fine meaning a grain size of 1-2 mm) work well.  The pots that plants come in should be removed, along with as much of the rock wool as possible.  The roots can then spread quickly into the substrate.  If the plant's roots are minimal, you can use small pieces of rock around the base until they are firmly rooted, especially if you have substrate fish that might poke around and loosen them.  The lead weights on stem plants should be removed.  There is a discussion in another thread about the possible poisoning of fish from lead, but regardless of the possibility of this occurring, it is still best to remove them.  Same with elastic bands.  Stem plants can have a couple inches of the cut ends of the stems buried in the substrate, and a rock or two added if needed.
 
Byron.