Struggling With High Phosphates Again

[Akasha72]

I managed to get some distilled malt vinegar today - hope that's the right stuff. I checked my po4 this morning again and it down to 0.4 so back into the safe zone now.
What do you suggest I do now? I'll be doing a water change at the weekend which will obviously be adding po4 back. Should I wait until I see the po4 level rising again and then start dosing the vinegar or should I start it while it's at this nice low level?

 

[Zante]

The dosage rises gradually because you need to let the bacterial population grow. While you're still ramping up the quantity the bacteria will still be consuming less phosphate than what is in the water. When you reach a point in dosing when you don't read phosphate anymore that's the amount you'll stop increasing at.

Of course, if you start reading phosphate again you will start rising the dosage again to increase the bacterial population again.
 
If you get the dose right you shouldnt be needing phos remover any more.

 

[Akasha72]

okay so this mornings test is the same as yesterdays so it looks like the remover has now depleted itself and it's not going to come down any further. That then means that when I do my water change this weekend I'll be adding back 60 litres of water containing po4 of 1.6-ish and so it's going to climb again.
 
I've got a poorly cory at the moment and I've got him some pimafix and so that will be going in for 7 days with this weekends water change. I'm a little scared to mix the vinegar with a treatment so I think for this week I'll add a new bag of remover and treat my little cory and then start the vinegar with next weekends water change instead 

 

[Zante]

I don't want to sound flippant, but trust me, the vinegar will be the least of your problems. 
The initial dose will be miniscule, about 1/64th of the phosphate you have.
The only effect it will have will be to get the bacterial population started. For the first couple of weeks you probably won't notice a difference in nitrate and phosphate levels as the bacterial population grows.
 
It's up to you (obviously) but I wouldn't worry about interaction with melafix or pimafix, which are natural extracts anyway.

 

[Akasha72]

okay ... just call me little miss over-cautious! lol
 
I'll do as you suggest and start adding the vinegar with the next water change and the treatment too 

 

[Akasha72]

did my 60 litre water change this morning and tested my po4 and nitrate straight after. Nitrate is at 20 and po4 has gone up from 0.4 to 0.8 - not as far as I expected if I'm honest. I expected it to be back up near the top.
 
Not put any vinegar in yet though

 

[Zante]

Just to keep you updated, it's early to see a difference yet with the amount of nitrates and phosphates that my fish generate, but I've been regularly adding vinegar as per the table.
The fish are fine, so much so that one of the pairs of discus is starting to show unusual interest for the algae magnet.
 
That might be also because I moved the airstone to the corner of the tank where the weir is because I've ordered some floating plants. I'm hoping that the water flow from the airstone will keep the floating plants away from the weir.

 

[Akasha72]

I got the vinegar Zante but I'm doing a bit of an experiment with the remover first. I wanted to see just how many water changes it could go through before it was exhausted.
So far I've done 2 water changes and I'm measuring daily to watch for the PO4 rising. So far it's steady but I think the 3rd water change will be the crucial one - that'll be this weekend. 
I've also been testing Nitrates at the same time and that's on the climb again despite the weekly 60 litre water change. I can't be changing more than 10 buckets, my back would be wrecked if I did that. I'm struggling with the 10!
 
The nitrates must be coming from the fish food. There's trace in my tap water and my ferts are phosphate and nitrate free

 

[Zante]

I don't remember: is your tank open topped? I'm guessing it is since you mentioned the female curviceps jumping.
 
Are you still hesitant to put some pothos stalks in the tank?
Once they've grown the roots will provide a permanent spawning mop for your corys and a secure refuge for any fry.

 

[PepperjacksMama]

Yes do the Pothos! I use it in all my tanks.

 

[Akasha72]

no the tank has got a lid. Female curviceps jumped from the Rekord 800 when the lid was off. It was when I had to empty the 240 for my new carpet to be fitted last summer. She was the first in to the 800 but while I was catching all my other fish ready to add she decided to jump. I found her on the kitchen floor hours later.
 
Anyway ... the 240 has got a lid and remind me - what is Pothos? ... wasn't he a muskateer? 

oooh PJM I like your Tag line ... I completely agree. A tank without cories is a very sad one indeed

 

[Zante]

Porthos (with an R) was a musketeer

 
Pothos is this:

 

[Akasha72]

ahh right. Dunt work on a tank with a lid tho 

 

[Zante]

Are you sure you can't open a little bit of it, you know, like the Rekord has that little lid for the autofeeder?
Those plants are nutrient sinks. Give them light and they will grow like weeds, and to grow like weeds they need to suck many nutrients. And the bigger they grow, the more nutrients they suck.
 
Is your tank near a window?

 

[PepperjacksMama]

You would be surprised.
Mine aren't as nice as Zante's, (so jealous ). But just a sprig will grow quite well.
And as I found through accident it works as a floating plant as well.