Struggling goldfish, one losing scales

[OliveFish05]

Hi. We have this 75 gallon tank that we bought used. The man sent his 3 goldfish and the 7 inch common pleco with the tank. We quarantined them in their tank with all their own cycled media for 3 weeks, they were doing great. and last week we moved one of the goldfish to the pond. He was immediately horribly aggressive with the koi and goldfish in the pond. He was stressing them out horribly, so that evening we moved him back to the tank and decided to take him to our LFS next chance we get.

He has started losing scales and has a big red sore on his side. He is lethargic and inactive. Today he was not very interested in his food. And NOW one of the other goldfish in the tank is acting lethargic too, resting upside down by the filter.

The tank is cycled and I do weekly 50% water changes. There are pothos and monsteras growing on the top of the tank. The temp is about 70-72.

I also noticed some suspicious little white specks or grains on the big orange guy, the one we moved around. They’re far less today so I don’t know if it’s ich. It looks too small to be ich…

 

[Colin_T]

Have you checked the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?

The red patch on the side of the fish is blood, most likely from a bacterial infection, but could also be caused by external protozoa like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. Salt should help, but do a big water change and gravel clean before adding any.

The white on the fish could be excess mucous. A big water change and gravel clean and salt. Monitor them over the next week and if it gets worse, post more pictures.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt, or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

Does this fish have any red where his fins meet the body, also look around the nostrils and mouth for any red spots. Please take a close look, not trying to scare you, blood/hemmorage in these areas can be signs of trouble and help diagnose what is causing the issue.

 

[OliveFish05]

Throughout the today, the red spot on the fish’s side became larger and more red and inflamed. Very fleshy like an open sore. The fish has a curvy spine, my fishkeeping partner says it’s been there since the day she brought the tank and fish home. At the curve of the spine is where the bulge/sore is and all the scales are gone.

I did notice some concerning redness in the fins. I don’t recall any redness on his nostrils or near his mouth.

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

So the concern I have about this fish is the blood, especially if it is at the fins as well as the body. So fish can get hemorragic septicemia, it can be bacterial or viral. It affects a wide range of fish species, both fresh and marine. Ammonia poisoning can cause similar symptoms but if parameters are good the I would be more leery that it is potentially highly contagious(viral). I had a batch of keyhole cichlid years ago that I lost to viral hemorragic septicemia. They all were euthanized within days that symptoms started. They had deep red bases to their fins, red patches at nostrils and mouth, then they developed large red sores on their belly/sides, as well as swelling as their blood vessels weakened. I bleached everything after those fish were in my QT, threw out all filter material. I basically wiped out everything as I was sure it was the viral form.

If it is bacterial, I have heard others using tetracycline in food to treat affected fish and having success, albeit still sustaining losses. It has, however, the strength to kill off beneficial bacteria in the tank.

I am no expert, I know enough to be dangerous, not meaning to be doom and gloom. I would try what Colin T suggested, see if you are getting improvement, if not then I would get a bit more aggressive to try and get ahead of it. If it gets too bad, euthanasia might be the most compassionate end.

 

[itiwhetu]

My guess is this is a nitrate issue, can you give us a nitrate reading for your tank?

 

[OliveFish05]

Thank you all for your help. The fish was doing horribly yesterday. We are having a pet sitter at the house, so in other words we would be unable to do any kind of monitoring or treatment. We purchased some clove oil last week, at the first sign of any issue because we knew we would be away. We opted to euthanize the fish so the pet sister wouldn’t have to handle it. It went extremely well and very calmly and quickly. I think it it took 10 minutes to sedate him, and 5 more in the higher dose of clove to euthanize him.

I’ve been reviewing all the details in my mind, and talked to my “fishkeeping partner” about what happened and what’s followed since euthanizing him. He want absolutely insane when we released him into the pond (we did acclimate him). He chased 8 different in a 45 second window. We opted to pull him from the pond that evening when he had not stopped once since releasing him that morning. So a family member caught him from the pond. I wasn’t there, but they said he got really beat up “running” away from the net. I wasn’t there I don’t know what happened, but I do trust this person not to just go madly dashing about with the net trying to catch this fish. I know they did their best to be careful so as not to stress out the koi trying to catch this goldfish. So anyways we brought him back inside to the tank, I did a water change that day. He was immediately like, lethargic. He looked depressed, and from there he declined. I don’t know if goldfish “bond” with eachother, but it sounds like he and the orange oranda had been buddies. They followed eachother around everywhere in the tank. When the Wakin, the goldfish having the trouble, started declining, so did the oranda. Within an hour of him leaving the tank, Clementine (the orange oranda who sat upside down by the filter) got up and has been swimming around calmly since. She hasn’t gone back to the filter or had that lethargic look…

Is it possible that the big orange Wakin was injured and stressed, and Clem kinda fed off that? I am kicking myself because I know better than this, but I didn’t test the water and don’t have the ability to. If it makes any difference, the tank has pothos growing out the top and I did a 50% water change 3 days ago and another 50% the day before that.