Stocking A 29 Gallon?

[AlexJordan]

I recently bought a 29 gallon to expand my stocking options, and it's cycling right now. 
 
So I've read a lot of conflicting information on centerpiece fish, chief among them angels. Some say a pair would be fine, others say that would be a post-apocolyptic situation, and I'm not entirely sure either way. If I were to get a pair, what would be good tankmates? And if I weren't, what are some other options? I'm really not used to having so much space, so I'm considering gouramis, maybe cichlids? Any information would be appreciated!

 

[Chad]

I one that is okay with a pair as long as it's not two males. Since it can sometimes be hard to sex them most people just shy away from pairs. At least that's been my experience. My pair was purchased as a pair and the previous owner knew they were male/female and had them for a while. 
 
But, you have tons of options and it all boils down to what kind of tank you want. For me, I don't have centerpiece fish so I don't have to worry about that. 

 

[PepperjacksMama]

From experience with Angels. It's a love/frustration relationship. Can't say hate, because it ain't that bad.
I have four Angels in three tanks. Got four for a 55 gallon hoping I would get a pair. I got two. And four feet was not enough breeding distance for two pairs of breeding Angels.
The less aggressive pair are in with Corys, Otos, and a Bolivian Ram. A bit pushy when breeding but not bad.
The other pair were fine in a 29 for a couple of spawns until he rejected her. So he has a new roommate, an Opaline Gourami female I rescued. A little pushiness but again not bad.
The female is in with Corys, Otos, Black Neons, and Neons. She is still spawning, and a complete terror.
One must watch tankmates with Angels. Some will gobble up smaller fish. Other fish may nip at the Angels long fins.
Don't get me wrong Angels are great fish.
As for Gouramis, only had a few, the Gold, Three Spot, Opaline variety. Good tankmates, but territorial with thier own.
If you don't really have to have a centerpiece fish, well larger schools of Tetras or Rasboras look great.
You could do a species only tank. Such as someday I am going to do a tiger barb tank.

Just beware, that second tank multiples fast. I now have 10, but only six are up and running.

 

[Byron]

"Centrepiece" fish is something of a difficult issue.  In large tanks, say minimum 4 feet length but preferably 5-6 feet, larger centrepiece fish work better because they have space around them.  Largish fish placed in the confines of smaller spaces--and while an empty 29g tank seems large to us, it is anything but to a fish--frequently increase their natural behaviours to become more aggressive.  It is the only way a fish can deal with frustration imposed by the physical space.  And this is where other fish in the tank encounter serious problems.
 
A mated/bonded breeding pair of angelfish in a 29g, on their own, can work.  But the two fish must be mated/bonded.  A male and female, which as someone noted are not at all easy to distinguish until they become ready to spawn, is hit and miss; like all cichlids, the fish must select their own mates if they are to be suited long-term.  I have experienced this with many species of cichlid.  Two (or more) males in this space would result in a dead angelfish before very long, assuming the fish are normal/healthy to begin with.
 
Gourami are very similar to cichlids in behaviours and temperament.  Males are territorial, and aggressive to varying degrees depending upon the species, the individual fish, and the space (environment as well as physical size).  In a 29g, Pearl Gourami would likely be your best option for "largish" fish.  The blue/gold/opaline/cosby/3-spot gourami (these are all variants of the same species) are much riskier, as males (and sometimes females) can be downright nasty.  The Pearls are generally better behaved, though nothing is a certainty.
 
Smaller fish tend to suit such tanks better.  And here there are all sorts of options.  Knowing your water parameters (hardness and pH) would help for suggestions.
 
Byron.

 

[AlexJordan]

Thank you for all the input! I'll be on the lookout for bonded pairs if I were to get angels.
 
I know the pH of my water is around 7.8-8.0, but I don't have specifics on the hardness. All I know is that it is "moderately hard."

 

[Byron]

Thank you for all the input! I'll be on the lookout for bonded pairs if I were to get angels.
 
I know the pH of my water is around 7.8-8.0, but I don't have specifics on the hardness. All I know is that it is "moderately hard."

 
Find the web site of your municipal water authority and it will likely contain water data.  This usually includes the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness, also termed Alkalinity).  All fish have preferences, and their internal physiology will function best (meaning the fish will be less stressed and thus healthier) when the water parameters are to their preference.  Some soft water fish must have soft water, and some harder water fish must have harder water; and there are many species that fall in between.

 

[AlexJordan]

Unfortunately my area's government isn't the most forthcoming with that kind of information, and we use well water, but I have a gH/kH test kit on its way.
 
Though I've fallen in love with three spot gouramis; are there any pointers you can give on those?

 

[Byron]

Unfortunately my area's government isn't the most forthcoming with that kind of information, and we use well water, but I have a gH/kH test kit on its way.
 
Though I've fallen in love with three spot gouramis; are there any pointers you can give on those?

 
This is not one of the more peaceful gourami.  There are several varieites such as the blue, gold, opaline, 3-spot, cosby, marble, and possibly others; these are all selectively bred for the hobby from the one natural species, Trichopodus trichopterus.  And frequently this fish can be downright nasty.  Males are highly territorial, so only one male would work in your 29g, with two or three females.  However, other members have reported females that killed others of the species and other species, sometimes after being "peaceful" for several months.  It is not a species I would recommend.  More info here:  http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichopodus-trichopterus/
 
The T. trichopterus is easily capable of eating small fish; I watched two circling neon tetra in a store tank once, and it took seconds.  The Pearl Gourami is much more likely to settle down, though nothing is certain when it comes to any individual fish.  This is less likely with Pearls, though I would not mix them with the very small fish like the Boraras rasbora and similar.  But medium-sized rasbora make good tankmates.

 

[AlexJordan]

Awesome, that's a lot of good information to consider.
 
I finally got the kH and gH tests, and they seem to have conflicting results. I'm not entirely sure if I'm writing this correctly, but from the results it seems my kH was very high - around 17 degrees? And the gH was a mere 1.5 degrees. Am I interpreting that correctly?

 

[Byron]

Awesome, that's a lot of good information to consider.
 
I finally got the kH and gH tests, and they seem to have conflicting results. I'm not entirely sure if I'm writing this correctly, but from the results it seems my kH was very high - around 17 degrees? And the gH was a mere 1.5 degrees. Am I interpreting that correctly?

 
Do you have the API liquid test?  You add one drop of the regent and view the colour from the open top, with the tube standing on something white, it is easier to see the colour change this way.  Make sure you shake the regent very well before you start.
 
Are you sure there is no web site from your municipal water authority?

 

[AlexJordan]

Yes, I have the liquid test, and I got the same results again. And no, I can't find one. Though we don't use water form the city, we use well water.
 
It seems the gH is about 2, whereas the kH is around 17. Shouldn't the two correlate?
 
Edit: This is my first time fishless cycling (my betta was a rescue, he was in awful shape so I wanted to get him in clean water fast), so I'm unused to checking things over so much. I dosed to 3 ppm on Saturday, having seeded the tank with another 10 gallon's media. I just checked today, and the ammonia is around 1 ppm, but the nitrates are what I would guess to be around 10 ppm. Nitrites haven't budged, and if they have, it's very marginal.  But at the same time, I dosed nitrogen for the plants. Is this a false positive?

 

[hobby5]

Short note: 29G is to small for angels anyway.
 
Edit: Also too small for T. trichopterus.

 

[Byron]

Yes, I have the liquid test, and I got the same results again. And no, I can't find one. Though we don't use water form the city, we use well water.
 
It seems the gH is about 2, whereas the kH is around 17. Shouldn't the two correlate?
 
Edit: This is my first time fishless cycling (my betta was a rescue, he was in awful shape so I wanted to get him in clean water fast), so I'm unused to checking things over so much. I dosed to 3 ppm on Saturday, having seeded the tank with another 10 gallon's media. I just checked today, and the ammonia is around 1 ppm, but the nitrates are what I would guess to be around 10 ppm. Nitrites haven't budged, and if they have, it's very marginal.  But at the same time, I dosed nitrogen for the plants. Is this a false positive?

 
I missed the private well water point previously, sorry.  The GH and KH are normally close, though I have seen otherwise.  GH is the measure of certain dissolved minerals, primarily calcium and magnesium, present in the water.  It is sometimes called permanent hardness because it cannot be precipitated out of the water like KH.  KH (carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity) is the measure of carbonate and bicarbonate ions, and it can be precipitated out by boiling so it is sometimes referred to as temporary hardness.  Both affect fish, but we tend to be more concerned with the GH as this has a direct effect on the fish's physiology.
 
I use the API liquid GH/KH test.  Others have found difficulty determining when the colours change.  If you hold the open tube over white it is easier to see the colour.  The GH for example will be orange-ish, pale, but the change to green will be obvious though it will still be pale.  There is no need to add more to get a darker green, the drop that changed it from orange to green is the number.
 
As you have private well =water, I would also test it for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  The latter can sometimes be present, and at high levels, due to agricultural runoff, and high nitrate is another concern.  Best to know all this beforehand.  However, if the nitrate is around 10 ppm in the aquarium, and this is the API nitrate test, this is not going to be a problem.  Still, test the well water on its own just to confirm things.
 
To your cycling question, I never "cycle" tanks as such because I have a concern over adding toxic substances (like ammonia) to a tank in which I intend keeping fish.  I know this method works, but there is in my view a better method and that is to use live plants and bacteria seeding.  I cannot answer if dosing nitrogen may affect the test results, as I've never gone down this route.  If this were me, I would do some major water changes to get rid of the ammonia, and with live plants present, add the first fish.  You probably have some bacteria present now, and it is not going to disappear with major water changes.  But you do not want to add any fish if ammonia or nitrite are above zero.
 
Byron.

 

[AlexJordan]

Thank you for the excellent explanation of the two, I understand it much better. The GH turned a pale green upon the first drop, but the KH didn't turn a dark yellow (I couldn't get it any darker) for about 18 drops.
 
All the well water values are at zero, which is why I was kind of perplexed. I did seed with both ten gallon's filter media in the filter + "rinsing" the 5 gallon's filter media in the 29's water. I also planted a few days ago, and I'm hoping it'll fill in nicely!
 
The tank is holding at 
 
>.1 ppm ammonia (maybe a tinge of green)
.1 ppm nitrite (just a tinge darker than the well water baseline)
40 nitrate
 
On the other hand, I noticed something bizarre while testing pH. I tested pH awhile back using high range pH, but I couldn't seem to find the bottle, so I did the normal pH test.
 
Well water - 7.6 (probably higher)
29 gallon - 7.1
5 gallon - Much darker than the highest range, probably at least an eight
 
Is there a correlation between plants or GH? 

 

[Byron]

Thank you for the excellent explanation of the two, I understand it much better. The GH turned a pale green upon the first drop, but the KHdidn't turn a dark yellow (I couldn't get it any darker) for about 18 drops.
 

 
You're welcome.  My GH is the same, so you have very soft water.  My "official" level according to the water authority is 7 ppm, which is less than one dGH, so the first drop changes to green.  No issues, but stay with soft water fish, no moderately hard water species.  I wouldn't worry about the KH here.
 

All the well water values are at zero, which is why I was kind of perplexed. I did seed with both ten gallon's filter media in the filter + "rinsing" the 5 gallon's filter media in the 29's water. I also planted a few days ago, and I'm hoping it'll fill in nicely!
 
The tank is holding at 
 
>.1 ppm ammonia (maybe a tinge of green)
.1 ppm nitrite (just a tinge darker than the well water baseline)
40 nitrate
 

 
My previous suggestion still holds; do major water changes (ammonia and nitrite must be zero, and nitrate should come down before fish go in) and once the plants are growing, you're OK for a few fish.  We can discuss which are better first--this has nothing to do with cycling issues but more with the biological system that takes a few months to become established, and some fish are less sensitive to this than others.
 
Rinsing filter media and using the water is not beneficial.  The bacteria live on surfaces, called bio-films, that are sticky.  Bacteria adhere to these quite well, and it is impossible to rinse them off, it would take a degree of scraping but I would not do this.  There will by now be sufficient nitrifying bacteria in the tank, and they are not going to die off for a few weeks.  Plus the plants use ammonia, and a lot of it, as their preferred source of nitrogen.  Floating plants are ideal for this as they are so fast growing they work very well removing ammonia.
 

On the other hand, I noticed something bizarre while testing pH. I tested pH awhile back using high range pH, but I couldn't seem to find the bottle, so I did the normal pH test.
 
Well water - 7.6 (probably higher)
29 gallon - 7.1
5 gallon - Much darker than the highest range, probably at least an eight
 
 
Is there a correlation between plants or GH?
 

 
The GH, KH and pH are related, and the GH and KH primarily determines what the pH will do, with some exceptions.  Here, I would expect the pH to lower once fish are present, producing waste which becomes organics that various bacteria breakdown, producing CO2.  As well as the CO2 from respiration of fish, plants and some bacteria.  This CO2 produces carbonic acid, and the pH lowers.  This is fine with soft water fish.  Even without fish, the lowering to 7.1 in the 29g is likely due to this process.  Organics come from all over the place, and will be present in the water itself too.
 
The increase in the 5g is interesting...do you by any chance have calcareous substances in this tank?  Rock, gravel or sand composed of calcareous minerals like calcium, limestone, dolomite, aragonite, coral, shells, marble...these will raise GH, KH and pH.
 
When testing the well water, shake it very briskly for a few minutes to out-gas the CO2; some may be present.  This is not needed for the aquarium water.
 
Plants will affect GH and pH, but in my experience minimally; in very heavily planted aquaria the GH can lower due to plants.  However, here the initial low GH is something you will have to deal with, by supplementing these minerals.  A basic comprehensive supplement like Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti work.
 
Byron.