Starting Small Marine Tank, Help Please.

[adamfish]

Hello all, this is my first post on this wonderful forum, however I have been browsing anonymously for quite some time now.

Anyways, I am a currently a student and long time tropical fresh and coldwater keeper. However, for the past months I've been really hoping to start up a marine tank. Here's the problem, being a student, I'm living in a rented apartment with 4 others, with the strictest/####test landlord ever. Due to some silly rules, she isn't allowing me to get a new tank any larger than the planted community tank one I've already got running in the house. (It was hard enough for me to convince her to let me even get another one)

I picked up an semi old Juwel 70l from back home, and was granted permission to use that. Now here's the thing, I don't want anything fancy here. I'm not interested in coral for the time being, all I want is to be able to provide a good enough home for nothing more than a pair of common clowns and maybe a few shrimp. Clowns were my favorite fish long before Nemo was even an idea in somebody's head. After a few visits to a few LFS's around the city, I was told that what I want to do is achievable , but hard work at best, given the small size of the tank.
I understand I need live sand as the substrate and live rock to put in the tank, however that's where the information I'd been given got a bit vague, so made me turn to you guys.

The tank has the typical juwel corner filter, and I've been told to keep that in, however the filter medium will be changing alot. Someone said something about "polyfilter"? To act as a skimmer. My first question being, what would I need to put in there?

Secondly, is the skimmer issue. I've been told if I get the stuff in the filter right, I won't need one for such a small tank. I would actually prefer it if that's the case, mainly for space reasons, but also to avoid parts breaking/falling off/random bad luck etc, however, if I really have to have one and it'll benefit the fish, I'll get one.

I know I need a powerhead to provide circulation, and I've been recommended a few good ones to look at.

The things I'm struggling the most with is lighting and water. I've been told I need white and blue tubes of T(insert number), however the juwel hood only has one tube mount. Can I get by with one, or will a new hood be on the list too?

I'm even more lost with the water, a lot of people I've talked to in the LFS's have used the term 'RO'. I don't understand whether they mean 'Real Ocean' water or the one I knew of first which was a 'Reverse Osmosis' unit.
I think it's the real ocean term, which is readily available from a few places, but I have no idea about how I'd go about treating/mixing/keeping it, so a lot of help is needed with that please?

Finally, what about water changes? People have said I'll need to be doing them more than frequently, again due to the small size of the tank. This doesn't bother me at all, I'm happy to do that, however is this information correct?

Any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated, sorry for this turning out to be rather long.

Thanks for reading,
Adam

 

[rabbut]

OK, a long starter post, with lots of starter questions makes for a long reply. Make yourself comfortable. Sitting comfortably? Good, I shall begin

Oh, before I start, how rude of me. to TFF.

Right, Live Sand (LS) is a rip off. It certainly isn't needed. I'd use argonite sand as the substrate, and it will seed from the Live Rock (LR) to become LS with time LS sits on warehouse shelves, in really hot stuffy conditions, for months on end. Most stuff in it need constant Oxygen or nitrient sources to live. They aren't getting them in the bag. By the time the LS get to you it is really Dead Sand, as all stuff in it will have died. LS is basically dirty, damp argonite sand with an over inflated price tag.

LR isn't an essential thing for a tank to run successfully, but the other ways are to set-up a Bio-mechanical tank. This limits stocking choices and makes life more difficult with maintenance, so sticking to getting some would be good

I'd loose the Juwel filter box. They have loads of places where Detritus will build up, but to where your Clean Up Crew (CUC) cannot get to. These zones will basically start to rot fast, raising up NitrAte and Phosphate levels. It would be easier to keep toxin levels in check by removing the box

Skimmers aren't needed, so that information is correct. They are highly recomended though, so I would get one if you can. You'd only need an air driven one in a 70l tank, and they are starting from about £15 delivered on-line. Add a spare air pump to it and you are away They will reduce the chances of tank crashed e.t.c if you have one, as they'll remove some of what rots after something dies, lessening the spikes of a death and potentially preventing the levels spiking to a point where you loose other stock to another thing dieing, as often happens in a smaller tank (One thing dieing dragging down the whole tank due to spikes due to such a small water volume)

Polyfilter is a great filter medium for sucking out toxins. It is very expensive though. I keep it about for emergencies now, but don't use it for, or recommend using it for, normal tank conditions, mainly due to cost It will grab many things that the skimmer does, so can be used instead of or in combination with the skimmer, but using the skimmer will remove the more likely to build up stuff in a cheaper way...

For a powerhead, you can't really use the Juwel pump without the Juwel filter box, as it does not have a guard on it, and you cannot get a guard that will fit it I'd look a Tunze or Koralia pumps initially, unless you want to keep an anemone, and then you'll have to look at pumps that are easier to nem-proof... You want two pumps really, sharing the flow, such that the tank does not crash if a pump fails. You will need a minimum of 1400lph from your pumps, but short of pinning your fish to the walls with the flow (very difficult with clowns when LR is in the tank) you cannot have too much

With light, you really need to look at what you want to keep. For Fish Only With Live Rock (FOWLR) you will be fine sticking to the single tube. The light in a Fish Only (FO) or FOWLR tank is just there for your benefit, not the live stocks. If you want corals or nems though, you need an idea of what type, so you can then spec the lighting you need to apply

With water, you can get away with just salting up Tap Water with marine salt if you wish to stick to FO or FOWLR. If you want corals or nems though, you will need this magic RO water. RO stands for Reverse Osmosis, as you guessed first time. Into this you add marine salt for water change water, or use it neat for top-up's

For a 70l with a pair of clown, start with weekly 20% water changes, and adjust according to the levels from your test kits You may find this too much or two little, depending on your system, but that would be about average for your bio-load

HTH
Rabbut

 

[seffieuk]

to the salty side and TFF

Seffie x



PS remember, the only stupid question is the one not asked

 

[adamfish]

Well Rabbut, I feel enlightened I couldn't thank you enough for all your information. You've answered practically everything I was worried or unsure about.
However your mass of information has inevitably led to more questions
I've done a bit of interneting about products and was hoping you or anyone else could let me know if I'm searching for the right things here, and steer me to any products they think is worth a look at too.

First off the skimmer, is this like the sort of thing you'd recommend? [URL="http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...Miniflotor.html"]http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...Miniflotor.html[/URL]
coupled with an air pump such as this? [URL="http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...istral_200.html"]http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...istral_200.html[/URL]
Am I on the right lines with that? Are there any ones you'd recommend? Or any other sites to look at?

Secondly, I know you said the lighting isn't particularly important in what I want to achieve, but is there any like tubes you'd recommend I get to replace the rather worn out looking one in the hood already?

For the powerheads, did you mean 1400lph as the total flow rate between both of them, as in 2 with a flow of ~700lph, or was that 2 both with a flow rate of 1400?
And I remember being recommended this Koralia powerhead in a store somewhere [URL="http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...tion_Pump_.html"]http/www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalo...tion_Pump_.html[/URL] is that the right sort of thing?

Thanks very much again,

Adam

PS. Hi and thank you Seffie

 

[rabbut]

Unfortunately, the links you've posted do not work I'll assume since they all don't work, that you aren't formiliar with the BB code needed to get them going... To post a link, do something like

[url="Website address here (E.G. http://www.fishforums.net/)"]Text for the link to display[/url]

Should create something like This Sites Home Page <<that... You'll be able to see the exact code I've used for that by clicking "reply" at the bottom of this post. Then just edit the different bits to get your link working

Right, re. flow...

By 1400lph, I mean across both pumps, so two at 700lph would do you fine. If you can get more flow, go for it. Up until last week, I had over 5000lph of flow in my 70l nano, but I've had to change pumps on order to keep an Anemone... With indirect flow, such as that from Tunze or Koralia pumps, the more the merrier really

If you are sticking to a FOWLR system, any old tube that looks nice on the eye will do If you like a warm look to a tank, go for a Daylight lamp for example. For better red and blue colours, get a colour enhancing tube e.t.c. Really, it's personal preference

All the best
Rabbut

 

[adamfish]

hey, I think I've done these links right now. Anyways, let me know when you can, if I'm looking at the right things there, and whether you'd recommend any others.

possible protein skimmer

possible air pump

and the link to the powerhead is
possible powerhead


once again, thanks a lot, you've been a great help

adam

 

[GlidergirlUK]

I think the powerhead might be over doing it a bit, have a look at the nano or korilla 1 maybe getting 2 of them to mix the flow up would be better. You can usually get these cheap from ebay too!

 

[rabbut]

Yer, that skimmer will do. The Koralia you have your eye on would do the tank by itself even if you were setting up for high-flow SPS corals... I'd likely go with a pair of ones (Note, they measure output in Gallons per Hour, not Liters per hour, just to be un-helpful...)

The air pump is a good size for what you want to use it for

All the best
Rabbut

 

[adamfish]

Oh damn yeah, I didn't see that. two 800gph models would be pretty extreme haha. So no, you weren't being unhelpful at all. I guarantee you I wouldn't have noticed that until they arrived on my front door, or worse once in the tank. So you'd recommend either 1's or nanos then?

About live rock, how much weight wise would you recommend I get? And also, after some research I noticed there is quite a wide variety of it? Would it be better to order specific LR from the net, or just buy more general whatever from shops?

Thanks again and thank you Glidergirl as well

Adam

 

[Trod]

You could probably do with around 10kg of live rock. I wouldn't get it from a LFS, they tend to be very expensive, have a look on ebay or ultimate reef and see if you can get some from a reefer breaking up their tank, it is usually much better quality and cheaper you can pay anything from £4 to £7 personally I wouldn't pay much more than that

Oh sorry and to the salty side

 

[rabbut]

^^I'd agree with Trod for LR amounts and sources

Either a pair of 1's or a pair on Nano's will do you well

All the best
Rabbut

 

[adamfish]

hey, I've been searching around and stuff, and have come across the V2 nano skimmer. A few people I've been talking to have used them, and a lot of them swear by it, saying it's very good. I've read a couple of threads about it on here too. One question, i've noticed that the collection cup thing on top sticks quite far out above the water level, which led me to wonder if these skimmers need like one of those hoods that hang on top a couple of inches above, or will it fit in my normal juwel one? the juwel hood seems quite high, but will it be high enough?

 

[TigerIssey]

Mine sits 3 1/2" above the water level, you could measure to see if it would fit. I have been very happy with this skimmer.