Starting Saltwater Aquarium

[haowin]

Hey guys, so just wanted 2nd opinions on my reseach so far, plus im hoping it can help out other people in the future.
My tanks 170L, 37 imperial gallon, juwel panorama 100 if u wanna check it out.
To start im gonna have live rock and fish, then once ive established that move onto the reef.
This is gonna be stupid. but. with live rock, is it cheaper if its not cured? if i buy it cured, add the sand, protein skimmer, then it doesnt need to be cycled? and i can introduce fish?

So to start..
LR (1-2lb/gallon) so.. 16-17kg of LR, its quite expensive, what should i do? do i buy the whole wack? or buy a small amount lower the water level and allow that to cure then slowly increase the amount?

Sand - Aragonite good? i read it balances the Ph, read somwhere using live sands not good or something. can you get it fine? is there a really good one? ive seen some tanks with really fine sand that look good. 0.5-1 lb/Gallon .. 37lbs

Heater (2.5w/Gallon) ... 50w being a bit risky but its in the living room so the temperature shouldnt fluctuate that bad, if not 100w?

SW mix - supposidly aslong as im not having a reef set up generally any SW mix will do?

Protein skimmer , depends on the depth of my tank?

Test kit

Hydrometer/refractometer

Lights i got atm are 2x30w gro lux, LR itself arent dependant on light are they? i was planning in the future to get x45w lamps.

Ideal factors..
Temp - 24-27 degree celsius
Ph - 8.0-8.4
Specific gravity - 1.020-1.024
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20ppm or less(especially for invertebrates)
Carbonate hardness: 7-10dKH

 

[-Nemo-]

I;m not sure of the prices really for cured vs. uncured rock... but you're probably going to want to go for the cured. And you still will need to wait to add fish, the tank needs to cycle regardless of the rock you use. This will probably take a week or two, but you will need to obviously test it as it goes to know for sure.

After your ammonia and nitRITEs are 0, do a small water change and then you will be good to add fish and/or inverts.


How much rock...
IMO you're ok to start with around 10 kilos and you can slowly build on that as you go.

Sand, yes aragonite is the way to go. You probably want to re-think really fine sand, it can be a major PITA. It's harder to clean and gets blown around everywhere IMO. Live sand is considered to be a waste of money as the LR will do a better job than the live sand would.


I would get a bigger heater... 50W is quite small for that size tank. I would go for a 150W.


SW mix. What do you mean? The actual salt or the water? For corals you'll want RO water, if you plan on evntually having corals (which sounds to be your case), you might as well just start out with RO water. As for the salt, there are different brands and some which are specially made for reef tanks. Generally the reed tanks have an increased amount of certain trace elements (like Calcium).


Protein skimmer... If no sump, than you'll have a HOB skimmer. All skimmers that i've seen are adjustable.



LR does not need a high power light, the light you have now will be fine for it. For corals, different types need a different intensity. Be sure to research what you want to keep and then go from there. T8/T12 lighting isn't going to be a good choice. IF you want to keep a good range of corals, look at either T5 PC (power compact) Lights, or regular T5 lighting.



Your levels look OK. Consistency is also important.
Don't forget Calcium if you plan to keep corals. That should be between 400-450ppm.
Also, with inverts and corals I would keep the SG higher, preferably 1.024 or 1.025


Welcome to the salty side
Glad you're doing your research ahead of time!

 

[haowin]

I;m not sure of the prices really for cured vs. uncured rock... but you're probably going to want to go for the cured. And you still will need to wait to add fish, the tank needs to cycle regardless of the rock you use. This will probably take a week or two, but you will need to obviously test it as it goes to know for sure.

After your ammonia and nitRITEs are 0, do a small water change and then you will be good to add fish and/or inverts.


How much rock...
IMO you're ok to start with around 10 kilos and you can slowly build on that as you go.

Sand, yes aragonite is the way to go. You probably want to re-think really fine sand, it can be a major PITA. It's harder to clean and gets blown around everywhere IMO. Live sand is considered to be a waste of money as the LR will do a better job than the live sand would.


I would get a bigger heater... 50W is quite small for that size tank. I would go for a 150W.


SW mix. What do you mean? The actual salt or the water? For corals you'll want RO water, if you plan on evntually having corals (which sounds to be your case), you might as well just start out with RO water. As for the salt, there are different brands and some which are specially made for reef tanks. Generally the reed tanks have an increased amount of certain trace elements (like Calcium).


Protein skimmer... If no sump, than you'll have a HOB skimmer. All skimmers that i've seen are adjustable.



LR does not need a high power light, the light you have now will be fine for it. For corals, different types need a different intensity. Be sure to research what you want to keep and then go from there. T8/T12 lighting isn't going to be a good choice. IF you want to keep a good range of corals, look at either T5 PC (power compact) Lights, or regular T5 lighting.



Your levels look OK. Consistency is also important.
Don't forget Calcium if you plan to keep corals. That should be between 400-450ppm.
Also, with inverts and corals I would keep the SG higher, preferably 1.024 or 1.025


Welcome to the salty side
Glad you're doing your research ahead of time!

Thanks for replying

Got a question. Live rock. so i know its not alive and its the organisms and what not around it that's the benifitiary of having it giving it 'live' rock. but why do you need that rock? is it not possible to harness the organisms around it and say reinhabit them on something else?
I saw replica live rock, is it possible to habit those organisms on the replicas, ocean rock or something?
When i do go through with purchasing i'll follow what advise i can get. so..
10kg of LR, would 16-17kg be the ideal amount? saw some on ebay for £4 /kg. Too cheap?
But generally £10 /kg.

was gonna go be a sheep, lol. i like the sybiosis of the clown and the anemone. Some grazers for the cleanin, some shrimp and snails? thats all im thinkin of atm, maybe one or 2 dif fish after. So as the intial set up, 2 clown fish, shrimp, snails aswell as the LR

Saltwater mix, i thought you could buy it in a pack or something, mix with water and it was good to go.
The RO water, do the corals explode or something? From what i gather about RO its to stop water entering a semi permeable membrane? if on the other side of the membrane its saltwater? so.... for when i introduce the coral or something? cause i'd think over time the balance would be the same?

The hob skimmer, im quite confused about this one, so its flow rate i need to be looking for?, u said it can be adjusted? what can? some of the skimmers ive been lookin at are cyclinder desgined, is that for sumps? like it goes in the sump? so its basically a support filtration device? sorry if i seem really ignorant. guess i am

the sand, http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htcxTqtkHM&feature=fvsr i like it, i'd probably aim for something like this. But i guess if the sands gonna be blowin everywhere i'll think otherwise.

 

[-Nemo-]

It is true what you said about the Live rock, but it takes time for other rock to be turned into what we know as Live rock and some rock does not support the life (the bacteria in particular) very well. Ocean Rock is not porous and therefore would be a bad substitute for live rock.
While expensive, it is worth it. Look into people breaking down their tanks in your area. The LR is often sold very cheaply.


Anemones can be tough. They need a very mature tank (around a year old) and very very good parameters and many can also grow very large. They can also be troublesome in reef tanks are they tend to move around and can potentially sting corals. If it's the clownfish/anemone relationship that you like, there are corals that clowns will host. Captive bred clowns will actually host just about anything (alive or not).
Corals to look into for clownfish hosting:

Soft Corals: Anthelia, Xenia, Long polyped toadstools
LPS: Anything in the Euphyilla family (ie. Torch coral, frogspawn, hammerhead)

Just a few examples. The euphyillas are very anemone-like. From their anemone-like appearance to their stinging tentacles but are much easier to care for IMO and not as troublesome for the most part.


Oh the pre-mixed stuff... I don't have any experience with that stuff so I can't really comment on it.
RO water is about the purest water you can get. Tap water can contain a bunch of stuff you don't want in your tank. The process that RO water goes through, takes everything out of it. If you decide to mix your own saltwater then many LFS sell RO water or you can buy a unit to make some yourself.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the semi-permeable membrane...



Protein skimmer you're not worried about flow rate. What I was referring to was the water level. Most HOB skimmers will have adjustment knobs to change the water level inside the skimmer which in turn effects its performance. Most skimmers have a very similar design; a long cylinder with a cup on top and then an airline and pump connected to the long cylinder. Some only work while be submerged, others are hang-on-back (HOB). They usually specifically say what they are somewhere in the description. I believe I've seen a few which could be used in-sump or HOB.
Along with the LR, the skimmer will you part of your main filtration. It uses bubbles to take out organic matter and put it into a cup on top and then every so often you empty this cup out.


Not ignorance, learning

 

[haowin]

arigato

K, i'll stick with the LR
RO - reverse osmosis right?
http/science.howstuffworks.com/reverse-osmosis.htm
Used that to learn a bit about ro
http/saltaquarium.about.com/cs/makeupwater/ht/htdiytapfilter.htm
reckon thats an alright solution to using tap water?
Quite confuzzled about this, so using tap water.. so the problem is using tap water to mix with the saltwater mix is bad cause of the impurities? cause you cant straight up just bung in tap water into a saltwater tank even if its de-chlorinated.
so the diy tap filter, its just using the carbon filter as a dechlorinator right? to make sure the water i use is pure? removing the need for a dechlorinator but i guess the problem of osmosis is still present. ....
Ro water isnt going to be a neccesity till i introduce corals?
Looked at the prices for the ro/di distilers and it theyre pricey.
i can buy an ro/di distiller or buy it as ready made water? so de'cholormine wont work? (dno how to spell it, but better than de-chlorinator)

power head - http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/NIB-Hydor-Koralia-1-Pump-Powerhead-400gph-/200365681004?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ea6b9a96c

Protein skimmer - im seein alot of pump included, this doesnt remove the need for a power head to create current? its just needed to make the protein skimemr work?
http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Resun-Aquarium-Protein-Skimmer-Fish-SK-300-300-L-Hour-/300425234022?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item45f2bd4666
not sure if this ones hob or not

Salt water mix
https/www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk/reverse-osmosis-salt/salt/instant-ocean-sea-salt-c-121_79_82.html?p=shop

 

[fishboytoo]

You've got it right, the idea behind RO is to remove impurities from the tap water before you mix with the salt mix and add to tank. RO units are designed to remove nearly all contaminants, usually better than 95%. They will remove heavy metals, nitrates, and phosphates. These are the important things(some of them anyway) to control for reefs, or so I gather. The carbon tap filter link you posted will not do the same job as an RO unit. Carbon typically will remove larger sediment, chlorine, and volatile organic compounds from the water. Carbon will likely NOT remove minerals/metals and dissolved inorganics.

RO units often come as multi-stage units that combine physical filtration with a ceramic filter, the RO cartridge with the semi-permeable membrane, de-ionization, and carbon cartridges at the end. You may be able to find a unit with only RO or less stages for less money.

If the RO unit is out of your budget right now, you can buy RO water in bottles. I have done this myself for a while. I get the 19L jugs for water coolers at the grocery store, only $6 canadian for 2 of them. I have just purchased a 4-stage RO unit on e-bay. If you do the math, it pays off pretty fast. Consider your tank at 170L doing 10% water change weekly(not to mention top-off), would use about 1 jug at $3 per week x 52 weeks/year=$156. My RO unit was about $100.

 

[-Nemo-]

To add on...

Good powerhead choice. I would get 2 or 3 of them to have the correct amount of flow.

That skimmer looks like it's going to be too small. Ir's recommended for a 95L, but it does look like a HOB.