Starting again 2

[David]

Well after losing another angel to ick and giving it some serious thought I have decided to dismantle my whole tank, get rid of all the fish, replace the gravel with sand, rinse the plants as many times as possible, etc. What would be the best way to disinfect the tank? What else whould I do? I am keeping the filter media, there is no way I'm going to go through another cycle. Well the upside is I have a new tank to plan, and that's always fun. So: 46 gallon bowfront... what fish? I am looking for a somewhat peaceful community, no discus and no livebearers please. Just egglayers. Preferably stuff to occupy all the levels of the tank, some cories, tetras, etc. Gimme some ideas with exact numbers please. Example: 6 neons, 3 albino cories, etc. Tell me what you would put.

 

[Angry_Platy]

To disinfect the tank....use bleach....I am not sure on the exact concentration but any excess that you cannot wash out can be eliminated through using dechlorinator....

You will probably kick me for this....but I would start with new media as well...chances are that some of the ich parasites may have embedded themselves in your media...I know this will take some time to fishless cycle again....and thats the best way to do it....but you want to go about it the best way that you can this time. There are plenty of threads here about fishless cycling however I have done it a few times....successfully and unsuccessfully....so feel free to PM me if you need to...

You seem to like angels....how about some whiteskirt tetras....not dyed....some cardinal tetras (hardier than neons), some glass bloodfin tetras, some cories and a bristlenose plec.

SO.....going by the 1 inch of fish per gall rule this is what I suggest:

2 whiteskirt tetras
8 cardinal tetras
6 glass bloodfin tetras
4 cories
1 bristlenose plec

Going with that plan the tank will be mor likely understocked....which is good for your fish anyways

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[David]

Sounds pretty good, thanks. I don't know how safe bleach is, so I may want to steer clear. Anyone want to give a second opinion on whether dechlorinator can really remove it or not? I really can't cycle again... you must understand that i can't bear to lose any more fish due to nitrite spikes and the rest. I definitely want some angels, so I like that part. However I want to get bigger angels this time, which might eat cardinals, and cardinals are kinda sensitive so I don't know about them. I kinda want hardier fish this time around. Also bristlenose plecs produce a lot of waste don't they? I don't really like plecs that much either. I like the other ideas though. Keep 'em coming.

 

[David]

here is a rough plan I have come up with so far:

4 angels (definite) will let them pair up and return remaining 2/end up with 2 pairs
3 panda corydoras (definite)
3 peppered corydoras (maybe)
3 yoyo loaches (maybe) these are cool but I don't know much about them
1 dwarf gourami (maybe)
2 blue rams (definite) they are awesome fish
6 tetras: black neons if I can find them anywhere other than petco, other if not please suggets a smallish tetra that would work well with the species above.

Comments? Other suggestions?

 

[canarsie11]

Dechlorinater will not get rid of ick!

If it did, no one would have ick because you use it at every water change. Listen, it makes no sense to dismantle your whole tank and keep same filter media .

Once again, do not use filter media.

Do a fishless cycle, if you are gonna start again, else you will be doing all this work for nothing, ick will still be there.

Make sure you start to quaruntine(sp?), and whatever you are doing to acclimate your fish, get a new system. If you have to take an hour to do it, thats what you need to do.

 

[gaya]

quarantine

 

[Angry_Platy]

Dechlor will get rid of bleach....bleach=chlorine....makes sense right?

And yes, you do have to re-cycle the tank....do it fishless this time....it seems you want to take the easy route...sterilising your tank is great.....but the main source of problems in your tank can possibly stem from the filter.....if you are not prepared to start with new filter media then I wouldn't bother with disinfecting the tank...meaning you will be back to where you are now.

Bristlenose plecs aren't messy....they also are wonderful at eliminating algae....

Any small tetras will be eaten by angels....not only cardinals...

The only way to stop your tank getting ich....once you do the whole cleaning thing, is to have a quarantine tank and quarantine ALL new fish for at least 2 weeks prior to putting them in your tank...the quarantine tank will also enable you to isolate fish if suspected of illness and not put the other fish under the stress of unnecessary medication.

 

[Bignose]

If you fishless cycle, and one of the best tips to help the fishless cycle is to turn up the heater to like 80 deg F, the ich will have all died off by that time. It is a parasite that requires fish to survive, and at elevated temperatures, it will be completely through all its lifecycles in 14 days. If there are no fish to host the parasites, ich will die. For that matter, if you take everything out and let it dry, ich will die. (This is the reason why you cannot share nets between an infected tank and a clean tank!)

So, if you are patient, all the ich will be gone by the time you are ready to start again.

But, before you get too gung-ho about starting again, are you sure you have reviewed and eliminated what caused ich to break out in the first place? Have you been matching the water temperature with the tank's temp. when you were doing water changes? Quick temp. changes are often a culprit to cause ich breakouts. But, any stress is enough to weaken your fish's immune system. Also, buy only healthy fish from your LFS, and only from a healthy LFS at that. If ich is in a nearby tank, make sure it has been isolated from the rest of the system, as most LFS's tanks share water.

And, a quaratine tank is never a bad idea. Please don't fall into a trap of 'preventative medication' though, as all it will do is selectively breed the bad bugs that are immune to the medications you used -- then they will be far more ineffective when you do need them. Medicate only if you are sure the fish in the quarantine tank need them.

 

[gaya]

I find too that a quarantine period lets the fish get used to me and their new home w/out having to deal with a ton of tank mates right off the bat. it's so much easier to treat a smaller tank as well and to keep an eye on them.

 

[David]

So, in light of the info I've been given would it be possible to keep the filter media, but leave the tank empty for 14 days so that the ich all dies? Or is fishless cycle an absolute must? Don't get me wrong, I'll cycle again if I have to... I just really don't want to unless it's absolutely necessary. I might still get a bristlenose, it's just that I've heard that all plecs produce a huge amount of waste. Anyway, what do you think of the fish selections I've made so far?

 

[CFC]

The bacteria in the filter media will die off within 24 hours of being removed from its food source, ie the ammonia created by the fish. Unless you supply the media with at least a daily dose of ammonia then you will still have to recycle the tank.
Personally i would discard all used media and start from scratch. Disenfect the tank and all ornaments with a bleach solution and treat all live plants in a seperate container with a broad spectrum anti bacterial medication.

 

[canarsie11]

You should really stop worrying about new fish , and put that energy into getting your tank ick free .

I say new media, with a fishless cycle . Bump your temp upto 86f for the cycle.

Get your ammonia, you will be done before you know it.

Take the time during cycling to do some research, forums are great for advice, but getting the knowledge first hand on your own is the best.

You will find it will stick better!

 

[gaya]

I might still get a bristlenose, it's just that I've heard that all plecs produce a huge amount of waste.

david,

i have two bristlenose plecs and they are a total joy to have and keep the glass of my tank squeaky clean but...i gotta say geeze with the amount of poo they produce. when i do a water change there is no way to gravel vac the whole tank entirely because it would end up being more then a 50% change! each week i have to do half of one side and the other half the next week. i also have to pull everything out (except plants) because the poo gets under stuff. on the flip side i must have a ton of good bacteria in there and i always keep extra filters running in case i need one for another tank.

 

[parker313]

Instead of tetras, maybe look at harlequin rasboras. Great fish with nice color and markings yet shy enough that they won't nip at your angels like some tetras (black skirts).

I know how much of a pain all of this is, I just went through something similar.

Instead of 3 each of panda and peppered, get like 8-10 pandas. They only get to about an inch each so you can have more of them, yet they all stilll have the cory personality.

I'm really happy with the way I've got my tank stocked right now, but I think I may need to get another ram b/c this one I have now is waaaaaay too interested in checking up on everyone else - maybe another ram would give her someone specific to focus her attentions on

 

[parker313]

here is a rough plan I have come up with so far:

4 angels (definite) will let them pair up and return remaining 2/end up with 2 pairs
3 panda corydoras (definite)
3 peppered corydoras (maybe)
3 yoyo loaches (maybe) these are cool but I don't know much about them
1 dwarf gourami (maybe)
2 blue rams (definite) they are awesome fish
6 tetras: black neons if I can find them anywhere other than petco, other if not please suggets a smallish tetra that would work well with the species above.

Comments? Other suggestions?

Here's what I would do:

5 angels - gives you an extra partner - there's no guarantee you're going to get 2M/2F. 5 juvies will be just fine and they can pair up at a pretty small size so they'd be fine.

8-10 panda cories

3 yoyo loaches - great fish! With even 10 pandas and 3 yoyos there will be plenty of room on the bottom esp. if you have lots of planted areas/caves.

1 dwarf gourami

2 blue rams

8 harlequin rasboras