Starting A Sw Tank.

[gourami5]

Hi,

I am switching from freshwater to saltwater and I have plenty of questions. I will start with this one. I am planning to buy Live Sand, LR and fishes all together from an established tank and put into my tank. I just have an empty tank right now. In that case, do I still need to cycle my tank before putting LS, LR and fishes? Will nitrifying bacteria attached on LR and LS will be enough so that I can skip the cycling step? Thanks in advance.

 

[Triggerobsessed]

Even with the addition of pre-cured live sand and live rock, there is still going to be some die-off of some of the creatures. I would still cycle the tank for about 3 weeks and make sure to skim during this period. What fish are you planning on buying? What size is the tank?

 

[kkyyllee]

if your just transefering everything from an established tank to ur tank, if you keep every thing in water the whole time (ls and LR) you wouldnt have a cycle

 

[gourami5]

Even with the addition of pre-cured live sand and live rock, there is still going to be some die-off of some of the creatures. I would still cycle the tank for about 3 weeks and make sure to skim during this period. What fish are you planning on buying? What size is the tank?

Thanks for your reply. I have 55 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump. I am wondering how can the die-off happen if I just buy it from the established tank (for more than two years) and transportation take about 30 mins and everything will be in water the whole time. the guy I am planning to buy it from has a couple of clown fishes and a goby I think. If I really have to cycle the tank first, he might not want to wait to sell it to me. Again I appreicate your help.

if your just transefering everything from an established tank to ur tank, if you keep every thing in water the whole time (ls and LR) you wouldnt have a cycle

Hi KKyyllee,
Thanks. Did you have any past expereince with transfering? I am really worried that I am starting on the wrong foot. I tried asking that in the other forum as well and they are talking about issues with the poison gas from the live sand if I move the sand. Thanks.

 

[Triggerobsessed]

If the old water is transfered along with the sand and rock then dont worry about a die-off. Im just coming from a past experience of taking down my 29 gallon tank and transfering the LR from that tank into my 55. The LR stayed in the old 29 gallon water the entire time until transfered. But the next day i noticed an ammonia spike in my 55 gallon tank the next day. Possibly from the changes in temperature or different levels of salinity. I would just be cautious and try to get the new tank's conditions as close to the old ones as possible just to be safe.

 

[kkyyllee]

ive moved tanks around but just in my house, and they were all under 20 gallons and never had any problems, how deep is the sand be in the other tank?

 

[Triggerobsessed]

Im only sayin to wait a little while to put fish in, and just let the live rock get a little settled.

 

[gourami5]

If the old water is transfered along with the sand and rock then dont worry about a die-off. Im just coming from a past experience of taking down my 29 gallon tank and transfering the LR from that tank into my 55. The LR stayed in the old 29 gallon water the entire time until transfered. But the next day i noticed an ammonia spike in my 55 gallon tank the next day. Possibly from the changes in temperature or different levels of salinity. I would just be cautious and try to get the new tank's conditions as close to the old ones as possible just to be safe.

I see what your concern is now. I don't think I can transfer all the water from the old tank to the new tank as well. I will try to be careful to match the condition as much as possible. Thanks for sharing your expereince.

ive moved tanks around but just in my house, and they were all under 20 gallons and never had any problems, how deep is the sand be in the other tank?

Just around 1 inches of sand bed in the other tank. you mind telling me how many inches will cause the gas problem? Thanks.


Both of you have been really helpful.

 

[kkyyllee]

a 1 inch sand bed shouldnt cause problems, theres not a depth that actually causes gas bubbles, if there are enough inverts or fish to sift through the sand it wouldnt be a problem

 

[n3ont3tra]

gourami5, from your posts, I was under the impresion that you were going to try and cycle the tank as you would for freshwater, using ammonia. I'm just making sure that's not what you were gonna do. In saltwater, the die off from live rock cycles the tank so there is no need to add ammonia.


If you leave the live rock and sand in water the whole time, I doubt you'll have any die off. As long as there's no huge temp drop/rise, you should be fine. I don't think the same water will do anything, except maybe add some nitrates. I would get the live rock and live sand and fish and keep them in the old water, then put the LR and LS in the tank, without the old water. Then carefully acclimate the fish.

 

[n3ont3tra]

theres not a depth that actually causes gas bubbles,

I disagree. Here is a post from nmonks:

If organic material gets buried below the top 2 cm of sand, it can potentially turn nasty. Anaerobic decay is where bacteria consume the organic materia without using oxygen but producing gases such as hydrogen sulphide. Such gases can kill fish.

However, you can reduce the risk to zero by doing any one of a number of simple things:

1. Use a thin layer of sand. Obviously if the layer of sand is only 1 cm deep, then anaerobic conditions cannot develop.
2. Add burrowing fish. Things like Synodontis, Awaous gobies, kuhli loaches, and eartheater cichlids will turnover the sand constantly and remove any overlooked food. By sifting the sand, they also prevent anaerobic pockets from developing, so things like plant leaves and fish faeces decay aerobically.
3. Use Malayan livebearing snails. They will constantly turn over the sand, letting oxygen get in, and will also eat up any bits of waste that gets into the sand. These snails are a true blessing in the sandy aquarium!
4. Use live plants. The roots of plants have evolved to live in dysaerobic or anaerobic substrates, and carry oyxgen from the water into the substrate. This keeps the substrate sweet. You won't get anaerobic decay in a well-planted aquarium.
5. Use an undergravel heater. Warm water currents circulate in the gravel (convection currents) and these draw oxygen into the sand. Again, this prevents anaerobic conditions from developing.

It is mostly for freshwater, but I'm pretty sure most of it still applies to saltwater, other than the specific fish.

So, ways to keep your sand aerated:

• thin layer of sand
• sand sifting fish (many gobies and blennies, also some wrasse)
• Nassarius snails will bury in the sand
• I don't think the "use live plants" part relates to saltwater, because I don't think you can actually plant most macroalgae...
• Not too sure about the undergravel heater either, but I don't know why it /wouldn't/ work...

 

[kkyyllee]

1" sand bed isnt much more than 2 cm (.5 cm diff.) and thats for fw, in sw theres bristleworms etc. living in sand bed keeping it clean and stuff, and most peoples cuc incorporate sandsifting creatures also. 1" shouldnt be a problem, but too be safe is there a way you could add the fish a day or so later just to be careful?

 

[SkiFletch]

IMO the biggest problem with "cloning" tanks like this is that often the previous owner of the tank neglected its cleaning regimen and as such the sand bed is FULL of detritus which when disturbed will cause a bigtime NitrAte bloom. This happened to Miss Wiggle and I'm sure she can relate her early frustration with the transport process. I'd reccomend when preparing the rocks to go into your tank, have a saltwater bucket nearby to shake pieces of LR in in order to remove detritus, and really vaccum and filter the sand bed WELL before re-introduction.

Edit: And as always have lots of Saltwater, RO water, and Towels around

 

[gourami5]

gourami5, from your posts, I was under the impresion that you were going to try and cycle the tank as you would for freshwater, using ammonia. I'm just making sure that's not what you were gonna do. In saltwater, the die off from live rock cycles the tank so there is no need to add ammonia.


If you leave the live rock and sand in water the whole time, I doubt you'll have any die off. As long as there's no huge temp drop/rise, you should be fine. I don't think the same water will do anything, except maybe add some nitrates. I would get the live rock and live sand and fish and keep them in the old water, then put the LR and LS in the tank, without the old water. Then carefully acclimate the fish.

Hi n3ont3tra,

No, I do not want to cycle with ammonia, and that is why I am asking whether it is ok to just dump in LS, LR and fishes and get instantly cycled tank.

Thank you everyone for your responds. From all your inputs, it sounds like if I do it carefully with all ur suggestions about temp, saltinity and LS, it should be ok. I got more help here from this forum than anywhere else, Thank you guys.

 

[andywg]

Im only sayin to wait a little while to put fish in, and just let the live rock get a little settled.

But if you get cured LR and then leave the tank for 3 weeks then the bacteria on the rock that do the filtering will die without a source of ammonia, thus making the LR less beneficial than it was before.

As Ski said, sand can be a pain once disturbed. I would be tempted to ditch the sand and replace with new aragonite sand (the LR will soon seed it to convert it to live sand, thus saving you money) and just keep the LR.

So long as the LR comes from a system with fish in it I would leave the tank overnight to make sure nothing bad happens and then look to get some fish in there.

With regards to "gas bubbles" there are two things to remember:

1) The type of sand dictates the depth at which bubbles can appear. I have very fine (less than 0.5mm grain) sand in my tanks, and I get bubbles appear in depths of less than 1cm.

2) The gas is not actually that bad. It is likely to be either nitrogen gas from anaerobic bacteria processing nitrates (very good) or possibly hydrogen sulphate which, while deadly, will denature into something less harmful as soon as it encounters oxygen.

So long as your fish are not showing signs of hypoxia then you should be fine with bubbles in the sand. However, having "medium depth" sand beds (more than an inch or so and less than 6") seems to lead to problems in the long run with nutrients being absorbed and then released back into the system.