Stag horn and BBA

[Chrenobeno]

Hi all,
I have noticed staghorn algae and it’s getting worse and just now a tuft of BBA on my driftwood. The bladder snails are doing their best but the stag is taking over. I was told Seachem flourish excel was very good for this but there are mixed reviews. I don’t want to spot treat as it’s everywhere. Have any of you guys used it/ know about it and Is it okay, does it work and will it kill my fish! Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Byron]

Several things to mention here. First, on the Excel...yes, this will harm fish in spite of what Seachem says. It is glutaraldehyde, and that is a highly toxic disinfectant. Never use this in a tank with fish...it can also kill plants even at the recommended dose. The fact that it can kill some algae is or should be a warning bell to begin with--nothing that kills plants, bacteria, and fish should go into an aquarium. Enough said.

"Problem" algae is caused by an imbalance of light and nutrients. The only safe and effective way to deal with problem algae is to establish or re-establish the balance. While snails are excellent at consuming common algae, they will not do anything for "problem" algae, and there are no suitable fish for this either. It is up to the aquarist to work out the balance to benefit the plants but not encourage algae.

We need to know the light data (intensity, type, spectrum, duration), and the nutrients. A photo of the tank will tell us some of the nutrient part as we will see the plant and fish load. And, are you using any plant additives/fertilizers?

 

[nik_n]

I have a similar problem in my tank. Its a 180l planted tank and I keep getting BBA. I used hydrogen peroxide to get rid of them a couple of weeks back but they are coming back again which means something is imbalanced. Is it caused by excess light or excess nutrients? I keep my light on for about 6h a day and feed once or twice a day. The tank is quit heavily stocked: 2 angelfish, 1 blue gourami, 5 columbian tetras, 3 bristelnose plecos and 2 appistogramma.

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Byron]

I have a similar problem in my tank. Its a 180l planted tank and I keep getting BBA. I used hydrogen peroxide to get rid of them a couple of weeks back but they are coming back again which means something is imbalanced. Is it caused by excess light or excess nutrients? I keep my light on for about 6h a day and feed once or twice a day. The tank is quit heavily stocked: 2 angelfish, 1 blue gourami, 5 columbian tetras, 3 bristelnose plecos and 2 appistogramma.

Any advice would be appreciated

Your experience is precisely why the only effective way to solve "problem" algae is getting the cause/balance rectified. All of these additives often suggested have serious risks for fish so they are never the answer.

Light duration should not be a problem, unless the intensity is really high...any idea? And what is the spectrum? Any value in Kelvin or CRI (colour rendering index) can tell us this.

Are you using any fertilizers?

BBA is the only problem algae I have had to deal with, but I have done so for 20+ years in various tanks. During the past decade I learned about the balance, and once I sorted that out, some five years ago, I have not seen any BBA appear in any of my tanks. However, along the way I experimented with light and fertilizers and discovered that any single factor can throw off the balance and problem algae is always ready to take advantage.

I had it increase when I did not replace the tank light (T8 tube) because the light became to dim for the plants. I had it appear when I used so-called aquarium or plant light tub es, instead of full spectrum (around 6000K) tubes. I had it increase when I used to leave the lights on longer; when I got down to seven hours, end of algae problem as that was the duration needed to balance the nutrients and sufficient for the plants. I had BBA increase when I went from once to twice a week with a comprehensive fertilizer--again it tipped the balance. And I had it increase two summers until I worked out that this was due to the increased duration and intensity of ambient daylight entering the fish room--blocking the windows completely solved this.

 

[nik_n]

Unfortunately I don't know that the light is I bough the tank years ago. It has red, blue, white and yellow/gold light on it. I don't use any fertiliser. Could the light be too strong? I assumed it must have been because of the stocking levels but I'm not sure.

Are you saying I should try and figure out whats the problem by changing different components and figuring out the balance?

 

[Byron]

Unfortunately I don't know that the light is I bough the tank years ago. It has red, blue, white and yellow/gold light on it. I don't use any fertiliser. Could the light be too strong? I assumed it must have been because of the stocking levels but I'm not sure.

Are you saying I should try and figure out whats the problem by changing different components and figuring out the balance?

To the last question, not exactly. But sometimes we do need to change "x" and then monitor things for a couple weeks and if nothing improves, we do something else. Obviously something is out with the balance, so you/we need to find what that is and correct things.

I can't say much about the light without some data, but if you are not using any fertilizers you may very likely be giving sufficient light but no "food," or insufficient food, for the plants to be able to photosynthesize. If you could post a photo of the entire tank we would be able to assess the plant load and fish load. Different plants have differing requirements when it comes to light intensity, and with that different nutrient levels.

 

[nik_n]

Here are some photos of the tank. The anubius and the driftwood seems to be affect the most. I do believe it is a lighting issue, because the anubius plants in direct light are more affected than those who are shaded by bigger leaves.

 

[Byron]

Here are some photos of the tank. The anubius and the driftwood seems to be affect the most. I do believe it is a lighting issue, because the anubius plants in direct light are more affected than those who are shaded by bigger leaves.

This helps. First, the Anubias, this is a clear sign the plant is under too much light, but as you don't want to penalize those swords, floating plants would be ideal here. They will not shade too much, plus they will take up a lot of nutrients from the water, thwarting the algae.

As for the swords, they are not looking bad generally, but there is evidence to me (I have kept Echinodorus plants for 30 years) of nutrient deficiency; they are heavy feeders, and a good quality substrate tab will do wonders. I use Seachem's Flourish Tabs, one close to each plant's crown (stuck deep in the substrate) and replaced every 4 (sometimes 3) months. This has a double benefit--very good nutrition to the plant, but no leeching into the upper water column to encourage algae as liquid fertilizers can sometimes do.

 

[Chrenobeno]

Claim 3: Flourish Excel™ is actually gluteraldehyde! It is a dangerous carcinogen that is harmful to fish, plants, and humans!​

This claim, that Flourish Excel™ is Gluteraldehyde, is a common one that is simply not true. I cannot speak for any other companies that may or may not use Gluteraldehyde, I can only speak for our company and our product. While structurally similar, Flourish Excel™ is NOT a gluteraldehyde product. Flourish Excel™ contains a molecule (2.0% polycycloglutaracetal) which contains a 5-carbon chain backbone. This molecule simulates the way a carbon would function in photosynthesis and helps to fill in the gap in a plant’s metabolic chain when there is not enough carbon present in the system (whether using a CO2 system or just from atmospheric exchange). Again, this isn’t to suggest that Flourish Excel™ replaces a CO2 system or atmospheric exchange or will interfere with either of those methods. It’s is simply an addition to the Carbon supplied by those methods, should extra be required.

 

[Chrenobeno]

My tank is heavily planted more so than nik_n.
All plants growing great then crypt melts completely and staghorn forms. I don’t fertilise and the light is on for 6h a day. Nothing has changed the tank is well cycled and 10-20ppm nitrates. It’s a high flow tank with moderate surface agitation. It has Columbus Japanese backed soil substrate which buffers the ph to 6.4 perfectly. The only other thing I can think of is low C02 hence why I wanted to use flourish. Not as an algaecide but for C02 to balance nutrients. I will prob start using the root tabs once soil becomes less effective but the swords have doubled in size in 6 weeks!

 

[Byron]

Claim 3: Flourish Excel™ is actually gluteraldehyde! It is a dangerous carcinogen that is harmful to fish, plants, and humans!​

This claim, that Flourish Excel™ is Gluteraldehyde, is a common one that is simply not true. I cannot speak for any other companies that may or may not use Gluteraldehyde, I can only speak for our company and our product. While structurally similar, Flourish Excel™ is NOT a gluteraldehyde product. Flourish Excel™ contains a molecule (2.0% polycycloglutaracetal) which contains a 5-carbon chain backbone. This molecule simulates the way a carbon would function in photosynthesis and helps to fill in the gap in a plant’s metabolic chain when there is not enough carbon present in the system (whether using a CO2 system or just from atmospheric exchange). Again, this isn’t to suggest that Flourish Excel™ replaces a CO2 system or atmospheric exchange or will interfere with either of those methods. It’s is simply an addition to the Carbon supplied by those methods, should extra be required.

Where is this from? Am I to take it that you are connected to or representing Seachem in stating this?

 

[Uberhoust]

I am not necessarily for or against chemicals, but the site below suggests the Excel is in fact gluteraldehyde. It would be good to see some actual research on this material.

Glutaraldehyde

Glutaraldehyde Glutaraldehyde IUPAC name Pentane-1,5-dial Other names Pentanedial, Glutural, Glutardialdehyde, Glutaric acid dialdehyde, Glutaric aldehyde,

www.chemeurope.com

From the site.

A polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde trademarked as polycycloglutaracetal by Seachem Laboratories, Inc. is the active ingredient in a product called Flourish Excel, a fertilizer for aquatic plants. It is claimed that it provides a bioavailable source of carbon for higher plants that is not available to algae. Though not marketed as such due to federal regulations, the biocidal effect of glutaraldehyde kills most algae at concentrations of 0.5 - 5.0 ppm. These levels are not harmful to most aquatic fauna and flora. Adverse reactions have been observed by some aquarists at these concentrations in some aquatic mosses, liverworts, and vascular plants.[citation needed]

I wonder if the citation is missing for the entire paragraph are for the adverse reactions statement.

 

[Chrenobeno]

I am in no way representing Seachem. I simply did a google search and saw an article from Sechem’s knowledge base saying the above. I hope I haven’t offended anyone in posting this (it’s widely available on the net) just thought like most things the argument for and against is maybe not so clear cut. I appreciate this forum as it’s based on real people doing as opposed to the myriad of blogs out there, that are downright confusing. I will definitely take on board suggestions; it doesn’t nesecerally mean I will do as suggested.
Its more of, we’ll, a forum.

https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360050726473-FAQ-I-ve-heard-that-Seachem-Flourish-Excel-is-actually-dangerous-or-not-helpful-to-my-aquarium-plants-Is-that-true-?mobile_site=true

 

[Chrenobeno]

There is a link to the data sheet also.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

My tank is heavily planted more so than nik_n.
All plants growing great then crypt melts completely and staghorn forms. I don’t fertilise and the light is on for 6h a day. Nothing has changed the tank is well cycled and 10-20ppm nitrates. It’s a high flow tank with moderate surface agitation. It has Columbus Japanese backed soil substrate which buffers the ph to 6.4 perfectly. The only other thing I can think of is low C02 hence why I wanted to use flourish. Not as an algaecide but for C02 to balance nutrients. I will prob start using the root tabs once soil becomes less effective but the swords have doubled in size in 6 weeks!

Honestly flourish is not a substitute for CO2 and lots of people have had issues with it melting crypts as well. All it does is remove algae. Also CO2 is only needed if you have high light, fast growing plants and are dosing ferts. Adding CO2 if there is not enough light, nutrients and plant growth to make use of it won't do anything.

Crypts will almost always melt when you first plant them. Rapid water parameter changes can also make them melt. Sometimes they also melt "just because". I find they tend to do better in established tanks that have been running for a few months. When they melt the decaying leaves can encourage algae growth in that area. Remove dying leaves as soon as possible. Generally they will come back to life and regrow even when they seem to have completely died off.

If your not dosing ferts it might be worth looking at a fert with just trace elements. Could be that your tap water is missing something. Give it a few weeks with that and see how it goes and if there is no improvement look at dosing something with macro nutrients. I would look for something with little or no nitrate in though considering your nitrate is already high.

Here are some photos of the tank. The anubius and the driftwood seems to be affect the most. I do believe it is a lighting issue, because the anubius plants in direct light are more affected than those who are shaded by bigger leaves.

Completely agree with @Byron some floating plants and root tabs will be a massive help. In my experience the more plant growth you get the less algae there will be. You have quite a few slow growing plants so adding some fast growing floating plants and maybe a few stem plants might help deal with excess nutrients and algae.

Another big cause of algae is too many organics in the tank. Making sure the filters are clean and gravel vac regularly. Remove dead/dying leaves and don't over feed.

Water circulation can also be an issue. If you have dead spot this can cause issues. Also if you aren't adding CO2 and your fish selection will be ok with it make sure you have plenty of surface movement for good gas exchange.