Split from Nmonk's sand topic
- Thread starter Sheridanp
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Bufo Bill
Fish Fanatic
I'm setting up a 28 litre tank for Pygmy Puffers, and i used about 2.5 cm of sand to put some plants in (2 Crypt's, 3 Ophiopogon japonicus and 1 Anubais barteri var.nana). Yesterday the sand around one of the O.japonicus went grey and "Mouldy looking". It seems to a dummy like me reading your article if I just remove the affected plant and sand (already done) and taking 0.5 cm of the depth this wont happen again. Is that right or am I barking up the wrong tree?
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
You presumably realise that Ophiopogon japonicus isn't an aquarium plant, and dies after a while if kept underwater? The mouldy looking stuff is exactly that, mould, showing you the plant is dying back.
A sand layer under 1 cm thick has zero chance of becoming anoxic, and so is a perfect choice in a tank containing only species that attach to bogwood and stones, such as Anubias and Java ferns.
Cheers,
Neale
A sand layer under 1 cm thick has zero chance of becoming anoxic, and so is a perfect choice in a tank containing only species that attach to bogwood and stones, such as Anubias and Java ferns.
Cheers,
Neale
Bufo Bill
Fish Fanatic
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
The Tropica web site is your friend.
http
/www.tropica.com/default.asp
Besides being suppliers (to the trade) of superb quality plants, they have a quick and reliable online guide to aquarium plant species. My first port of call for this kind on information.
Cheers,
Neale
http
/www.tropica.com/default.aspBesides being suppliers (to the trade) of superb quality plants, they have a quick and reliable online guide to aquarium plant species. My first port of call for this kind on information.
Cheers,
Neale
Qays
Fish Herder
Thanks for the info nmonks!
If Air pockets form under rocks, can you just move the rock and swish the sand underneath at every water change to stop anything forming?
Also, is 1-2 cms of sand Ok for corys? or is it too little?
If Air pockets form under rocks, can you just move the rock and swish the sand underneath at every water change to stop anything forming?
Also, is 1-2 cms of sand Ok for corys? or is it too little?
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
To be honest, I wouldn't put big rocks above large amounts of sand. I think it safer either to not use rocks at all, or choose small ones, or else place the rocks on the glass bottom of the tank and only have sand goung around the sides of the rocks, not under them.
This is exactly the same issue as with undergravel filters, where putting large rocks on deep gravel beds is not considered wise. The potential for dead spots that the snails, plant roots, water circulation, and scavenging fishes can't get to is too great.
1-2 cm for Corydoras is perfect. Obviously smaller species don't need as much as larger ones, but for the standard-sized stuff like C. palaetus the fish will easily clean this depth of sand.
Cheers,
Neale
This is exactly the same issue as with undergravel filters, where putting large rocks on deep gravel beds is not considered wise. The potential for dead spots that the snails, plant roots, water circulation, and scavenging fishes can't get to is too great.
1-2 cm for Corydoras is perfect. Obviously smaller species don't need as much as larger ones, but for the standard-sized stuff like C. palaetus the fish will easily clean this depth of sand.
Cheers,
Neale
Nick Sw
Fishaholic
Thanks this a great topic and your advice is brilliant NMonks.
I am a total newbie to Tropical Fish I`m looking at starting up a Juwel Rio 125 and I like the idea of the more natural look and the effect of sand as a substrate, I was thinking of maybe having a few large rocks so they would be in place first then the gravel around them mixed in with pond soil then a layer of sand.
A LFS told me sand was for experts do you think I should stick to gravel?
What depths of gravel / soil and sand would you use in a tank of this size ?
What type of sand I prefer the Coral but my local water is described as moderately soft so would I be best with Silica sand ?
When cycling the tank (I will be trying fishless cycling) when would you add the snails when the readings are all ok before the fish ?
Just one more thing ! on Reading The "Dreaming of Discus" article in the May issue of Practical Fish Keeping magazine, the tank has been setup as a heavily planted tank with Bogwood. Firstly a granular plant fertiliser was layed across the bare tank, on top of that a layer of washed course gravel then washed fine gravel followed by a layer of 5cm aquarium sand this sounds very similar but there is no mention of anything that might disturb the sand like snails or fish with burrowing habits.
I am a total newbie to Tropical Fish I`m looking at starting up a Juwel Rio 125 and I like the idea of the more natural look and the effect of sand as a substrate, I was thinking of maybe having a few large rocks so they would be in place first then the gravel around them mixed in with pond soil then a layer of sand.
A LFS told me sand was for experts do you think I should stick to gravel?
What depths of gravel / soil and sand would you use in a tank of this size ?
What type of sand I prefer the Coral but my local water is described as moderately soft so would I be best with Silica sand ?
When cycling the tank (I will be trying fishless cycling) when would you add the snails when the readings are all ok before the fish ?
Just one more thing ! on Reading The "Dreaming of Discus" article in the May issue of Practical Fish Keeping magazine, the tank has been setup as a heavily planted tank with Bogwood. Firstly a granular plant fertiliser was layed across the bare tank, on top of that a layer of washed course gravel then washed fine gravel followed by a layer of 5cm aquarium sand this sounds very similar but there is no mention of anything that might disturb the sand like snails or fish with burrowing habits.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Thanks for he kind words.
Sand does give a very natural look. Provided the depth of sand is only 1-2 cm, then there is no risk of anaerobic pockets developing, and hence no potential problems with bad gases. Personally, I'd still keep a few catfish or gobies to clean the sand, but that's more about tidying up than poisonous gases. Obviously a shallow sand bed is no good for plants that have roots. You'd have to stick with epiphytes (Anubias, Java fern, Java moss) and floating plants.
Use rocks with care. Large rocks will prevent catfish, snails, or plant roots from doing their job. If you must use rocks, place them on the glass at the bottom of the tank, and then pile the sand or gravel around them. That way, there's nothing under the rocks, and hence no risk of waste getting there and turning nasty. Otherwise, arrange your rocks so you can lift them up easily, and, say once a month, clean up underneath them.
Gravel is easier to set up and maintain, so in that sense it is "better" for beginners; but seriously, there's no real reason that anyone can't use sand in their first tank, just so long as they follow the rules.
Coral sand is relatively coarse, and hence has a very small risk of compacting and creating an anaerobic layer. It is widely used in marine tanks without problems. I happen to like silica sand better because it is chemically neutral. Coral sand will harden the water, which means it can only be used with fish that like a high pH (such as livebearers, African lake cichlids, and brackish fish).
I have never done a fishless cycle, so can't comment on what works.
As for the PFK article, I haven't seen it. I wouldn't recommend using sand without any burrowing fish or snails, but I guess if you had a lot of plants, the roots of the plants should keep the sand clean.
Cheers,
Neale
Sand does give a very natural look. Provided the depth of sand is only 1-2 cm, then there is no risk of anaerobic pockets developing, and hence no potential problems with bad gases. Personally, I'd still keep a few catfish or gobies to clean the sand, but that's more about tidying up than poisonous gases. Obviously a shallow sand bed is no good for plants that have roots. You'd have to stick with epiphytes (Anubias, Java fern, Java moss) and floating plants.
Use rocks with care. Large rocks will prevent catfish, snails, or plant roots from doing their job. If you must use rocks, place them on the glass at the bottom of the tank, and then pile the sand or gravel around them. That way, there's nothing under the rocks, and hence no risk of waste getting there and turning nasty. Otherwise, arrange your rocks so you can lift them up easily, and, say once a month, clean up underneath them.
Gravel is easier to set up and maintain, so in that sense it is "better" for beginners; but seriously, there's no real reason that anyone can't use sand in their first tank, just so long as they follow the rules.
Coral sand is relatively coarse, and hence has a very small risk of compacting and creating an anaerobic layer. It is widely used in marine tanks without problems. I happen to like silica sand better because it is chemically neutral. Coral sand will harden the water, which means it can only be used with fish that like a high pH (such as livebearers, African lake cichlids, and brackish fish).
I have never done a fishless cycle, so can't comment on what works.
As for the PFK article, I haven't seen it. I wouldn't recommend using sand without any burrowing fish or snails, but I guess if you had a lot of plants, the roots of the plants should keep the sand clean.
Cheers,
Neale
Qays
Fish Herder
On the subject of MTS, how do you cull them in a Gravel bedded aquarium?
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Unless you overfeed your snails, you shouldn't have too many snails. (Simple equation: snails turn excess food into baby snails; if there is no excess food, the snail population cannot grow.)
So, the thing to do is make sure that you are not overfeeding the snails. This may be too much actual food, which the snails eat, but also decaying plant matter as well as solid wastes from the fish and other animals (i.e., faeces). By removing these things from the aquarium, you reduce the carrying capacity of the aquarium as far as snails go, and that puts an upper limit on snail population.
If you already have too many snails because you haven't done anything to limit their population, then you have a variety of options. Pufferfish will eat snails, as will loaches and various other fish. Some people are wary about letting puffers eat Malayan snails because they have tough shells and these might break their beaks. All I can say is my South American puffer resolutely ignores snails that are too big and only eats the tiny babies.
Snail traps are produced, and these can be bought from aquarium shops. They are basically little lobster pots; you bait them with catfish pellets, and the snails crawl in but cannot crawl out.
Malayan snails will come out at night, and one thing that works well is simply to use a net can scoop them off the gravel and glass at such a time. Repeat this for two or three nights and you should make some serious inroads into the population. Once you're done, just make sure the snails aren't overfed again.
To be honest, Malayan snails are not a problem in my world. They are hardly visible by day, never harm fish or plants, and clean the sand very effectively. There are troublesome snails, but this species isn't one of them.
Cheers,
Neale
So, the thing to do is make sure that you are not overfeeding the snails. This may be too much actual food, which the snails eat, but also decaying plant matter as well as solid wastes from the fish and other animals (i.e., faeces). By removing these things from the aquarium, you reduce the carrying capacity of the aquarium as far as snails go, and that puts an upper limit on snail population.
If you already have too many snails because you haven't done anything to limit their population, then you have a variety of options. Pufferfish will eat snails, as will loaches and various other fish. Some people are wary about letting puffers eat Malayan snails because they have tough shells and these might break their beaks. All I can say is my South American puffer resolutely ignores snails that are too big and only eats the tiny babies.
Snail traps are produced, and these can be bought from aquarium shops. They are basically little lobster pots; you bait them with catfish pellets, and the snails crawl in but cannot crawl out.
Malayan snails will come out at night, and one thing that works well is simply to use a net can scoop them off the gravel and glass at such a time. Repeat this for two or three nights and you should make some serious inroads into the population. Once you're done, just make sure the snails aren't overfed again.
To be honest, Malayan snails are not a problem in my world. They are hardly visible by day, never harm fish or plants, and clean the sand very effectively. There are troublesome snails, but this species isn't one of them.
Cheers,
Neale
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Depends on the plant. Many plants have no roots at all, so if you're using things like Java fern and Anubias, all you need is enough sand to cover the glass. Plants with roots usually want a bit more than 2 inches. I'd try doing about an inch of pond soil (or gravel mixed with laterite) and then top that off with a couple of inches of sand. That's pretty much what I've done.
Cheers,
Neale
Cheers,
Neale
I considered a laterite subsubstrate with sand above it. But I was worried about them blending together. Is this a concern and if so how do you deal with it? BTW i play in the sand in my fish tanks. =)
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