Something I've Been Picking Up On

[Rediahs]

Okay, so since I've been planning on getting a tank, I've been doing research like crazy on everything from cycling to how many fish I can have, which ones outgrow tanks, what strength filter you need, etc...

One thing particularly strikes me as being very odd. It's mostly to do with cycling the tank. How can so many LFS be so unaware of the bacteria cycle? How can they be so uninformed, while keeping fish in their store? It really makes utterly no sense to me. In no LFS would they ever tell you to wait and cycle your tank before getting fish, most filters you buy come with charcoal in them, pet stores tell you to keep a betta in less than a litre of water...

More and more I increasingly don't understand how the people who provide us with fish and are supposed to be relative experts on aquaria are so consistently unreliable and actually cause people to kill their fish. The impression I get is that the lot of them are blissfully unaware that you need to do anything to a tank other than filter, heat, and dechlorinate the water, scratch their heads at dead fish and blame it on pH?

What's with this? I'm not getting it. Don't they have tanks full of fish in their stores? Don't the filter companies know what a MAJOR purpose of their filter media is, why do they sell things like this? Can't fish bowls be 1 gallon? It's not really that hard to deal with 1 gallon of water as opposed to less than 1 litre, sure okay 1 gallon might be pushing it but at least they have room to swim in a gallon, and it will benefit the companies to sell larger betta bowls because when they have more space, they are more active and interesting to watch... why perpetuate "they love puddles"? It's not beneficial....

This misinformation isn't even helping anybody, it's not making them any money when beginner aquarists end up with a tank full of dead fish and bring them back to get their refund within a week?

I don't understand. This isn't a rant, I'm not complaining about the conditions, I've come to realize this is what the industry is like, but how is it advantageous to them exactly? Why do they fail to give beginners what they need to know instead of just giving them fish, they'll get better business if they do... it's only proper business practice to make sure your consumers know how to use their product!! In this case the beginners don't know how to use their fish and they aren't being told how either! Fish don't come with instruction manuals, it's too bad, they really should, and this forum should write them..

 

[Tolak]

Good question & topic. I'll hold off on commenting on business practices in the aquatics industry, and how those businesses run from a financial standpoint.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Agree^^

They are running from a financial standpoint like Tolak said.

You get fish, they die, so you get more fish = LFS getting more of your money.

It is VERY rare to come along a fish store that will tell you about the cycling process.

Its all about getting the money that's in your pockets into theirs, not the well being of the fish unfortunately.

-FHM

 

[Rediahs]

Agree^^

They are running from a financial standpoint like Tolak said.

You get fish, they die, so you get more fish = LFS getting more of your money.

It is VERY rare to come along a fish store that will tell you about the cycling process.

Its all about getting the money that's in your pockets into theirs, not the well being of the fish unfortunately.

-FHM

Okay. But do they KNOW about cycling? Do they know it and are failing to tell you? So they can keep the knowledge for themselves?

Or are they really ignorant?

cause I dont' see how that's beneficial to them at all.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Agree^^

They are running from a financial standpoint like Tolak said.

You get fish, they die, so you get more fish = LFS getting more of your money.

It is VERY rare to come along a fish store that will tell you about the cycling process.

Its all about getting the money that's in your pockets into theirs, not the well being of the fish unfortunately.

-FHM

Okay. But do they KNOW about cycling? Do they know it and are failing to tell you? So they can keep the knowledge for themselves?

Or are they really ignorant?

cause I dont' see how that's beneficial to them at all.

They are most likely advised by their employer not to mention anything about cycling.

I am sure some know about cycling, while others don't.

What I have read is that, since they are not told about cycling, then they probably don't know a lot about it.

I am sure they know that there is some type of beneficial bacteria in the filters, however they might not know practically ways (fishless cycle) to go about cultivating these bacteria colonize.

And I am sure not a lot of them know about the Nitrogen cycle either.

It probably comes down to personal experience in this situation.

-FHM

 

[CKutz]

i believe many fish wholesalers work in a way that any fish that die and are returned to the store can be returned to the wholesaler for credit..so the store doesn't really lose anything by you returning your dead fish

plus there's lots of people that buy fish, they die, and they get pissed and quit..now the lfs just made money with no return. also in my case, the lfs i like to use is about 45 minutes away from my house. so if 1 fish dies..it's not very likely i'm going to drive all the way back there over it...stuff like this is what they bet on people doing, which leads to them making money

 

[ctt33]

When I started out I was pleasently surprise that 2 of my lfs both told me about different ways to cycle a tank and would even test your water. They also told me about size restrictions of fish and tanks. On the other hand big chains like Walmart/Petco/etc. never mentioned a thing. So I would recommend going to several different stores(if possible) and talking them up. And give your business to the most knowledgable.

 

[Tolak]

It's a business, and like with many businesses certain things apply across the board. The fish they sell you as your pet is considered product. Product losses are written off against the gains. Many of them are still stuck with the traditional cycle with fish, it is more advantageous to their business to keep current with the business world than the slight technicalities of what they sell. You bring back your dead fish, they replace it (writeoff, business advantage) and probably sell the newbie some sort of snake oil product to add to the tank (more profit).

After some losses from the cycling process the tank cycles, the customer is happy, and on the rare occasion does a water change, with a few deaths afterward. Being told anything from weak fish to bad water, they are sold another fish or three, along with some new snake oil. More profit, a return customer, this is what drives the business.

The kid at the lfs is no more an expert on aquatics than the kid selling you the Big Mac is an expert on nutrition. They are there to sell a product, to give the customer what they want, to complete a sale. How would you feel if the kid at McD's questioned your order, then suggested something else, then refused to sell you what you want? This is how the usual consumer looks at their lfs. The consumer is going to buy what they want to buy, it is the job of the sales person to make that transaction go as smoothly as possible. There is not a lot of profit in fish sales, they hire whoever they can get to work for that low wage.

Commercial pet sales is a different world from pet ownership, ethics & morals as animals are concerned often get tossed out the window for profit.

 

[dthoffsett]

Well said Tolak.

As for the filter manufacturers, they know what their product is for, but they make more of their money on the media than the filters themselves. Making sponges, bio-balls etc. is dirt cheap, giving them a large profit margin, so of course they're going to tell you to replace everything once a month. Again, it's a business so they're trying to make money, they just assume that the consumer knows not to throw everything out at the same time, or to alternate cleaning filters if you have more than one. Some of the better manufactures say in their instructions to only change out one sponge at a time, at least my Fluval did.

 

[saz326]

As above - but remember the filter manufacturer needs to ensure you know about all the products/consumables available for that type of filter.

They provide carbon not so you necessarily use it straight away (my fluval explained that the carbon can sit in the buckets when required), but so you know that they sell it in nice easy to use packets - preventing you from buying any-other brand make.

l

 

[GlidergirlUK]

I think this senario explains a lot -

Parents and child go into a LFs, child wants fish....

Parents ask about tank etc.... they then go to buy everything and child wants to add fish now!

If you A, told the parents and child all about cycling without fish they would no doubt think its too much like hard work and of course the child wants a fish now! and doesnt want to look at an emptytank for ages.
B, dont tell them about cycling to the full extent and let them buy tank and fish...happy Child and happy LFS.


I know from past experience that I have bought fish on impulse and have had no choice but to do a fish in cycle, if at the time I had been told aboput fishless cycling I probably would have listened (I am not a chils and do not have the I want syndrome!) but ultimatley I would have ended up buying a different fish as the one I first saw would have sold by then.

 

[pippoodle]

my local maidenhead will not sell a fish tank and fish the same day to the same people

they advise you on cycling- but not if you seem knowledgable though - so some may slip through the net - i do think they and we can tell a newbie when they come searching for a fish

i also heard them asking customers , the size of their tanks - when buying clown loaches - man had a 18 inch tank and was going to buy 6 little loaches , they refused to sell them to him
they also ask how long has your tank been running , if its not very long again they will not sell you a fish
also if its nopt filtered again they wont sell you a fish

 

[saltynay]

My LFS asked me if I had cycled the tank before selling me the fish I said yes I had added a bit of ammonia over the past month. He advised me that he will sell me the fish but a fish in cycle would of been better, personally I think that is a very subjective view the objective is to add ammonia to the tank it doesn't matter how I go about adding it aslong as its present.

 

[fishoz]

i'm pretty sure they are really just ignorant. it's annoying though, because if i go to buy a mobile phone, i'd expect them to know something about phones!!

also, there will have been a lot of fish in those tanks, so they would have cycled long ago, and they probably just sold the first fish before they got chance to see the effects of ammonia poisening.

what i dont get is why they just have fish dying or dead in their tanks. nobody in their right mind would buy a fish from a tank full of dead ones!!! seriously, some people just dont have brains.

 

[Rediahs]

i'm pretty sure they are really just ignorant. it's annoying though, because if i go to buy a mobile phone, i'd expect them to know something about phones!!

also, there will have been a lot of fish in those tanks, so they would have cycled long ago, and they probably just sold the first fish before they got chance to see the effects of ammonia poisening.

what i dont get is why they just have fish dying or dead in their tanks. nobody in their right mind would buy a fish from a tank full of dead ones!!! seriously, some people just dont have brains.

I know, that's the worst that gets me... when I went to a store near me they had a whole bunch of bettas... I got excited, until I got closer, and realized half of them were dead, the other half were half-dead. Obviously nobody had paid any attention to them at all, and I don't see why or how anybody would buy one! I bet they wonder why their bettas aren't selling! Well it's obvious, if you look at a bunch of fish and they look sick and dying why would anyone buy them?

It'd be in their best interest to keep the tanks clean and fish healthy so why don't they learn how to do that?!?