Some Plant Leaves Turning Black

[styles1228]

Hey everyone,

I am fairly new to live plants (Jan 2012), and have a couple questions. I designed my tank to be low tech, and have a 37 gallon, and 48watts. The plants are growing great, but what happens with some is they tend to start to get black around the edges of the leaves, all while still showing new growth. I recently started using Flourish Excel (CO2 supplement), and I seem to have possibly resolved this, but today I noticed a few of the plants were kinda showing brown... My water in the last couple days is clearer then its been since Jan (was fighting some cloudy water, and recently an algae bloom). I was leaving the light on for about 10-12hrs, since when it was cloudy, light wasn't penetrating as well. Is it possible this is actually being burnt from to much light now?

I also noticed that a couple seem to have the stems turn black, and rot away, from the gravel level. Again, this is all while the rest of the plant is growing great, so I am not entirely sure what might be happening.

For water quality, the PH is about 6.4-6.6 but never moves from that point. Ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite, are all 0, so the quality of the water is perfect, just now trying to figure out how to get my plants looking perfect as well.

I feel I should also add that within the last month or 2, I have started getting a good amount of algae on the glass... Is this as simple as having the light on way to long?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much!

 

[snowflake311]

What kind of plant are they? could be non aquatic. Sounds like lack of iron maybe. What is your substrate ? Root tabs of in substrate ferts will help if it's a type of sword or crypto. These are heave root feeding plants.

Also perfect water is not what plants like. Plants will take in ammonia and nitrites as food. Plants really need nitrates if your nitrates are 0 that could be your problem. I dose nitrates go my heavily plants tank that has co2.

Do you add any kind of ferts? if not I would add flourish it's an all around fert with lots of what plant need. I would Also add root tabs. If you are adding Excel and not adding ferts. This will cause a problem. Weekly fert dose will help.

 

[styles1228]

Hey,

I'll be honest, I don't recall their names off the top of my head, but I did check, and re check before I purchased that they were indeed aquatic. I do however know I have a few cryptos but they are doing very well in the tank, and look very healthy.

I currently do use Flourish about once a week or so, and the Flourish excel I use about every other day (it says daily, but since I am low tech, I scaled it back). In theory, I suppose I could essentially over feed the fish, it would help create some ammonia, and thus provide some more nutrients for the plants.

I guess I am mainly confused as to why they are growing so nicely, but then after a week or so, that new growth/leaf/stem, gets the hints of black, but then will grow new on top of that, and does the same cycle. Another odd thing, is that those same plants... their leaves near the bottom are perfect, the ones closest to the lights, are the ones with the hints of black, and more recently the brown.

Also, with the plants, I always read that with plans means a lack of algae since they both eat the same nutrients, so is there an explanation that might explain why I recently have had a large algae growth as well?

Thank you!

 

[Teacher Martyn]

I am no expert at all but I can tell you that my local fish shop did recoil with surprise when I mentioned that I was running my lights for 12 hours + a day.

I've reduced that to about 8/9 and the plants are happier.

The light goes on in the morning for half that time (so I see the fish before work) and then comes back on for the evening.

 

[styles1228]

Ya, to be honest, I never thought it a problem until the last couple days, but I always thought it seemed crazy haha.

Might explain the algae, but the brown, and black still worries me.. So tempted to leave the light on though when you just want to stare into the tank

 

[JohnDyer]

Is it wisteria? All of mine rot like that too, and I just chop off the rotten parts and re-plant.

 

[shoulders]

have you tested your phosphate levels ? from memory i seem to recall this could lead to the symptoms you have if the levels are too high [ i could be wrong someone please correct me if i am ] also how often do you do water changes ?

 

[styles1228]

have you tested your phosphate levels ? from memory i seem to recall this could lead to the symptoms you have if the levels are too high [ i could be wrong someone please correct me if i am ] also how often do you do water changes ?

To be honest, I never checked phosphates before, as I never even thought about it. Since you mentioned it, I did some reading, and most likely is the reason I had an algae bloom last week, so my next question is... Any tips for bringing it down (I will buy a test kit first). Is there a filter media recommended for live plants, that also helps keep water clear, and phosphates down?

Might this also explain the blackening of leaves?

Thanks!

 

[stu40]

No,no. Sorry but blaming phosphate for algae is old school thinking. Ammonia + light =algae.
Basically plants need 3 things to grow, light, co2 & nutrients.
Light is the driving force in your tank, the more you have, the more of the other 2 factors you need.
You've given the plants a lot of light with 12hrs, so more co2 & nutrients are required.
Adding Excel has increased the carbon (not as effectively as pressurised, but better than nothing)
but the nutrients you're using is Flourish, which i believe only contains trace.If you dosing carbon, then you need to add Nitrogen & Phospate
lack of nutrients will lead the plants to fail & die off because they're not getting everything they need, giving small ammonia spikes.Ammonia & light =algae
i've seen the car analogy applied to plants.Light is the gas, the more you step on the gas, the more fuel you need (co2 & ferts).Too much gas, and not enough fuel....car stalls
I'm slightly confused in that post #1 you say the stems rot at the bottom and yet post #3 you say they're fine at the bottom and rotting above.Is this 2 different types of plants?
IMHO if it were me, i'd get the lighting down to 8 hours.Dose the Excel but also start dosing with an N & P fert.
Plants that rot at the bottom, remove the dead stem and replant the healthy tops.
I'm guessing the stems that are black/brown at the top are suffering from algae (they're closer to the light)
Sorry to ramble on

 

[styles1228]

Thanks a lot Stu, I appreciate it greatly, and I didn't feel you were rambling.

In terms of the first post, I had meant 1 type is rotting at the bottom/gravel level. The tops, I meant the leaves are getting black (might be algae on the leaves) and more recently turned a little brown the other day, which almost looks like an outdoor plant with sun spots...

Ya, the reason I had the light on for 12hrs, was due to the tank being cloudy, for some reason. Then I had a large algae bloom, which took a few days to remove, and so of course, I had the light on a little longer since it was blocking out a lot. I did notice once the Algae bloom, and cloudiness was resolved, the plants within just a few days sprouted up, but then got that bit of brown, leading me to think it was to much light.

In terms of the Algae, what I find odd is that when I test the water, it always shows nothing for Ammonia, so is there another reason possibly for that. Could it simply be that the light is on way to long, so its just naturally creating algae?

Do you have a recommended fert for Nitrogen, and Phosphate?

Sorry for sounding like such a Noob, but the plants are so new to me, I am unfortunately clueless. I find there is a pretty large learning curve with using the live plants, and seeing how amazing they make a tank look, and how happy the fish are, I can't believe I never did this sooner. I find I am the person that wants everything to be perfect. I look at the tank, and now its finally crystal clear, the plants are well rooted (except the 1 that is rotting), they are growing, and yet, I see the ones with the leaves turning brown, and black, and not as bright green, and only look at that, so this site is a great tool, and I really appreciate all the help, as its a great learning tool for people like myself.

Oh, and filter media... I have a canister, and try to avoid using charcoal. Is turning it into a biological filter using Fluval Biomax usually work well with live plants? I am just trying to create a great atmosphere for these fish, and am unsure of exactly what kind of media to use to keep the tank crystal clear, and have great water for fish, and plants.

Thanks!

 

[stu40]

Thanks a lot Stu, I appreciate it greatly, and I didn't feel you were rambling.

In terms of the first post, I had meant 1 type is rotting at the bottom/gravel level. The tops, I meant the leaves are getting black (might be algae on the leaves) and more recently turned a little brown the other day, which almost looks like an outdoor plant with sun spots...

Ya, the reason I had the light on for 12hrs, was due to the tank being cloudy, for some reason. Then I had a large algae bloom, which took a few days to remove, and so of course, I had the light on a little longer since it was blocking out a lot. I did notice once the Algae bloom, and cloudiness was resolved, the plants within just a few days sprouted up, but then got that bit of brown, leading me to think it was to much light.

In terms of the Algae, what I find odd is that when I test the water, it always shows nothing for Ammonia, so is there another reason possibly for that. Could it simply be that the light is on way to long, so its just naturally creating algae?
The amount of ammonia is negligible so won't show up on home test kits, but is enough to kick start algae

Do you have a recommended fert for Nitrogen, and Phosphate?
i've only used TPN+ which is an all in one, i think seachem produce Nitrogen , Phosphate & K (potassium) seperately.

Sorry for sounding like such a Noob, but the plants are so new to me, I am unfortunately clueless. I find there is a pretty large learning curve with using the live plants, and seeing how amazing they make a tank look, and how happy the fish are, I can't believe I never did this sooner. I find I am the person that wants everything to be perfect. I look at the tank, and now its finally crystal clear, the plants are well rooted (except the 1 that is rotting), they are growing, and yet, I see the ones with the leaves turning brown, and black, and not as bright green, and only look at that, so this site is a great tool, and I really appreciate all the help, as its a great learning tool for people like myself.


Oh, and filter media... I have a canister, and try to avoid using charcoal. Is turning it into a biological filter using Fluval Biomax usually work well with live plants? I am just trying to create a great atmosphere for these fish, and am unsure of exactly what kind of media to use to keep the tank crystal clear, and have great water for fish, and plants.
I have the standard mixture of sponges & ceramic rings.

Thanks!

Don't worry, 18 months ago i knew nothing, still learning everyday, you'll be fine.Try reading through this link, and this one about some plants My link
To be honest, with your lowish lighting, if you choose the right plants, you'll probably be able to run this low tec with no excel and just Flourish once a week or so.
Keep the lighting period down, try simple plants like Amazon swords, anubias,Java fern, mosses,crypts etc, see what works for you.Move on from there.
Keep the tank clean (old credit card works a treat on the glass), remove dead leaves when you see them,prune out healthy tops & replant.
You can try the low tec approach and see how you get on,there will be growth, just more slowly.
Or keep adding the Excel and ferts to get better growth, but you'll need to do a decent waterchange once a week.

 

[styles1228]

OK, so started the 8-9hr light cycle, but imagine it might be a couple weeks before I notice any change. I guess the next thing is with all the information provided, I am not sure if I actually figured out why the stems rot at the bottom? It's just depressing to see them grow, and show new leaves, and continue to reach for the top of the tank, yet then rot, and come out of the gravel. What might explain this, would this be part of the lack of Nitrogen, and Phosphate mentioned?

As soon as it rots out of the gravel, and it hangs there (luckily caught up in the other plants rooted) the rotting stops, so is it just the gravel? When I look under the tank, the roots have such amazing growth, and are healthy, so I'm just confused as to why the stems are rotting at the base. I have no issues re planting then, but given all the root structure in the substrate, its getting difficult in the well planted sections, to keep re planting.

The ones that rot out of the substrate... Given the root structure, is it possible that down the road, this might sprout new stems, or given that the stems rotted probably not?

Overall, what I would love is to only have to do a small weekly water change, and a little fert, rather then stress, and continue to replant my plants...

Thanks!

 

[SO19Firearms]

and a little plenty fert,

If the leaves continue to turn blackk it might still be a lack of Carbon I'd be looking at 6hrs light and starting there....

 

[styles1228]

and a little plenty fert,

If the leaves continue to turn blackk it might still be a lack of Carbon I'd be looking at 6hrs light and starting there....

So, over exposure to light, can cause the leaves to turn black? I also noticed recently since I turned down the hours the light is on, the leaves have curled up a bit, and don't look as bright. Is this just more of them being used to long light, and now adjusting to shorter periods?

Again, what might also be causing the base of the stems to rot, and have to be re planted? I just am confused the pants can grow, and look OK, but rot at the base of the stems...

Thanks!

 

[Teephphah]

Part of this sounds a tiny bit like something I'm experiencing in my new nano-ish planted tank. I might be waaaaay off, so forgive me if my projecting my problems on to you. That said, I have to ask, when you say your leaves are turning "black" . . . how black is "black?" (Or, to put it another way, "the question is, 'how much more black can it be?' and the answer is, 'none. none . . . more black.'" - Sorry, any excuse to try to insert a Spinal Tap reference . . . I'm sure you understand.)

Errr, where was I? Oh, yes. Blackness.

See, I'm dealing with a crazy outbreak of cyanobacteria, particularly on my anubiases(?) (I assume because they're slower-growing). And, while this "algae" is technically blue-green in color, when you apply that layer over the dark green of the leaves, it looks black as black can be. It covers the leaves and the stems that the leaves are on too. But it's a fairly uniform coating, so the color is consistent rather than spotty or blotchy. Does that sound like what you're dealing with or is your problem more of a typical leaf-is-damaged-and-dying sort of thing?

I would think if it's just leaf damage, at least the short-term answer would be pruning. Don't let your plants waste energy trying to repair leaves they can't repair. Plus, sometimes a good pruning (but not too good) will inspire new growth.

As for the stems rotting at the gravel level, I've had this, and it's always worked itself out . . . one way or another. Either the whole stem eventually (but still surprisingly quickly) rots, as with my narrow leaf ludwigia, or the stem starts to root like crazy (or maybe just mildly crazy) just above the rotten part, and you can just give it some time to grow those roots out a bit before you push it down in a little. I tend to take this as the plant's way of letting me know that I've burried it too deeply the first time around. I might be wrong, but my plants always do better when their crowns are slightly above the substrate. Which seems a little weird from the vantage-point of terrestrial gardening. To me anyway.

Don't know if any of this will help at all, but I thought I could throw a couple ideas out there just in case.

Good luck!