Some Of The Juveniles I Moved Look To Be In Trouble

[Cory_Dad]

I did my weekly water change yesterday (40%) in my 60 gal. and when I was finished I noticed that one of my Zebra Danios was dead. I thought maybe I hit him with the Python siphon, but then 5 minutes later I noticed that another Zebra was gasping at the surface and it's gills looked red. I put him into my hospital tank with Pimafix and Melafix. I could see that another Zebra's gills looked red but gave up trying to catch him after about 30 tries. Later that day the Zebra in the hospital tank died.

I tested the water: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, PH ~7.4.

This morning I noticed one of the juvenile C. Napoensis swimming oddly. I moved him into the hospital tank. Then I also noticed that a number of the other juveniles were just hovering in the current. I think (but am not sure) that some of their barbels look a bit shorter than their siblings. I managed to catch one and transfer him as well. He's sitting at the bottom and darting to the surface to gulp air every once and a while. The first one is swimming on his back at the surface. Correction, laying on his back on the bottom.

I purchased some E.M. Erythromycin. Should I dump that into the 60 gal.? Is this bacterial, fungal or what?

I'm extremely worried about this and any advice will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Update:

I turned all the lights off and looked at them with a flashlight. The scales on their middle upper body look milky white. I checked in my main tank and on the active ones there are tiny patches of white but not as bad as the really sick one.

Is that fungus?

Second update:

I've just noticed that a couple of the juveniles in that large tank are rubbing themselves on plants.

What a great way to spend my birthday...

 

[jollysue]

I'm sorry. I hate moving juvies. I tend to keep them in their hatch outs until they are ready to breed! (One of my overstatements, but not much of one.) My first and only successful spawn of my bilineatus, I had, I think, four babies. I eagerly moved them to a ten gallon with some other young smaller fish. They seemed to be doing great, then they started swimming all the time and staying closer and closer to the top. Then one died and then another. All died--then the mother! One of my suppliers that I have done business with and exchanged friendlies with said fry are more sensitive to water quality. I don't know if there was much difference in the water quality or not, but after that I started leaving them in the nets much much longer.

I don't have that problem with bronze and peppers. But I frequently lose fry from other species when they are moved, just from the stress.

It is most likely bacterial and fungal. One started and the other was secondary. I most likely would treat like I do for columnaris. Treat with API Fungus Cure or Triple Sulfa. I have also had good success with Mardel Maroxy with Trisulfa. Mardel is milder and easier on the tanks, but API is very effective. Next would be a Jungle anti fungal. Jungal Buddies Fungal Clear is helpful.

Good luck.

 

[Colin_T]

the white slime on their bodies could be excess mucous.

 

[Tolak]

One thing I do with angel fry, as well as cory fry, is add 1/3 to 1/2 the normal dose of copper sulfate pentahydrate to the tank once they are swimming. The swimming towards the surface & gulping for air is a sign of velvet, which I found out nearly too late long ago with a batch of angel fry. It apparently affects the gills first on sensitive fry, causing them to have difficulties processing O2, thus going for air at the surface.

I had the same thing happen with cory fry, after not having added copper. I add this to the water, and replace with water changes for the first 3-4 weeks, slowly tapering it off to not adding any at all.

 

[jollysue]

Good info, Tolak. Does anything else treat it--AquariSol, CopperSafe, etc?

 

[Cory_Dad]

Thanks for the posts.

These are no longer fry; they're 1 inch long juveniles that just last week I moved into the community tank.

Jollysue, I'm not familiar with any of the brand names but I can call around the fish stores to see if they have any. Are you recommending I do the 60 gallon as well? As previouslly stated (or did I?) I have the really bad ones in a 2.5 gal. hospital tank with API Melafix and API Pimafix. Should I do that to the 60 as well or should I try to find the med's you suggested and do both tanks with them?

Thanks.

 

[Tolak]

CopperSafe is the same medication. I would have to check the ingredients on Aquarisol, but if it's copper it's probably the same thing.

Make sure that when using copper you have harder water, and an algae free tank. It will concentrate in algae, killing algae eating fish, or dumping an overdose of copper in the tank after it kills the algae.

 

[jollysue]

Check Tolak's post. Diagnosis is the real issue. One thing with Mardel products, they can be combined. So it would be possible to combine CopperSafe and Maroxy (an anti fungal) or one of the other Mardel products that treats bacterial infections.

Perhaps API is the same. AquariSol is API and is a very mild anti parasitic copper salts. I have combined it with other meds. Often a fungus will take an opportunity at the wound of a parasite.

AquariSol and CopperSafe are both easy to use, and I keep them in my med cabinet. Neither should be used with snail or inverts. They would both effectively and easily treat the 60 usg. I will somtimes treat a tank with either if I see flicking. Treat first for the parasite. Then a treatment for fungus or bacteria can be added later.

Mardel has a hot line and I would guess so does API. Go for the tech dept and they will advise on the use of the meds.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Yes, they have a help desk but Mon - Fri.

Tolak, I have 4 otto's in the tank so any copper formulation is going to cause lots of problems. And as for taking them out a) ever try catching an otto in a planted 60 gallon tank and b) if it's fungus and they have it too then when I reintroduce them won't it come back?

API Pimafix is an 'all natural' extract: http/www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Prod...px?ProductID=57 and so is Melafix.

If you guys think it's a fungus I'm going to start with these two today. In the big tank as well. I guess it can't hurt.

If it's a parasite (I have seen some flicking) then I don't know what to use.

Thanks.

 

[jollysue]

Most eveything is present all the time. When there is an outbreak, then it gets "virulent." They are all opportunistic. The natural immune systems protect fish. When there is stress or the immune system is stressed. A parasite creates a wound. Fungus is opportunistic to wounds. Bacteria nearly always take opportunity in fungal infections. Treat with the Fixes, call API or Mardel tomorrow and ask for advice. I have used mild doses of Coppersafe and AquariSol with no adverse effects.

Copper is also all natural . There are some concerns with the gills with MelaFix gumming them up. Add air. Salt alone will kill parasites. You could add some salt??? I think it affects plants at heavy doses. Corys can tolerate small doses of salt. I don't know the effective dose.

 

[Cory_Dad]

They won't live that long.

I have 3 floating at the bottom of the hospital tank now.

My local pet store has coppersafe , maracide and "Jungle Parasite Clear".

I can add salt, I have a 16 oz. container of conditioninbg salt but I thought that salt was hazardous to Corys?

I have this feeling I'm going to lose them all....

 

[Cory_Dad]

Update:

To the 60 gal I added:

Jungle Parasite Clear

Pimafix

Melafix

To the 2.5 gal I added:

Coppersafe

Pimafix

Melafix

1 of the juveniles in the 2.5 is floating on it's back and is pretty near to death, the other 2 are off and on floating.

In the 60 most of the juveniles are at the top either just sitting there or floating.

This is a disaster...

 

[jollysue]

I'm sorry

The good news is that as long as you have the female and male adults, it is a renewable recourse.

As I said earlier my bilineatus did not survive a move out of the hatchery/growout. They would have been termed juvies by most. I had pretty much the same experience. I think the stress of being moved is the issue. Mine were in a net in an adult tank. They went to a tank with less issues than the one they were in. Bacteria and fungus are present in all tanks, perhaps some parasites too. The healthy fish are more than able to resist infection usually. Stress is the killer.

It is difficult to get diagnosis and med advice from out of country folks. Many countries, uncluding the UK do not allow the same meds over the counter that the USA does. In addition the water systems are different.

I no longer mess with the Fixes (Mela and PimaFix.) The UK rely on them alot because they do not have access to the same meds we do.

I have lots of confidence in Tolak. He is very experienced and capable--although not a major Cory keeper, he deals with hundreds and thounsands of fish in the Chicago area. He has extensive experience.

Sue

 

[drewry]

sorry to hear about your corydoras Cory_Dad

 

[Cory_Dad]

Thanks Drewry but...

As it turned out this morning there was only 1 juvenile dead in the hospital tank and 1 in the 60 gallon which is a far better outcome (so far) than I was expecting.

Most of the fish in the 60 (including the parent Napoensis <shudder>) were very sluggish,maybe from the meds(?), the water had a greenish tint, so I did a 25% water change. That seemed to perk them up. I can't re-medicate with the Jungle Parasite for 48 hr. but I will put in some more Pimafix and Melafix for the 7 days it specifies. The Corys in the hospital tank were relatively perky (except for the dead one) but I did a 50% water change (it's only a 2.5 Gal) and re-medicated with all the meds. I also netted 3 other juveniles in the 60 and moved them to the 2.5.

All quiet on the Western Front 9 hours later with no further casualties. I will be continuing the bacteria and fungal infection for the 7 days. I can't re-medicate the 60 with the Jungle Parasite meds for 48 hours.

I forgot to post that I also put salt into both tanks along with the mentioned meds.

Jollysue, do you have any specifics on why you don't use the 'fix' meds?

I'm not sure I want to attempt to try putting them back into the 60 gall. I'm thinking of getting a juvenile Cory only tank (30 gal?); I can't go through this stress again.

As to where the parasites came from? No idea. So far it's killed 2 Zebra Danios and 2 Cory juveniles. The Platie fry and Platie juveniles are all ok as well as the otto's and neons.

Is it possible that the parasites came in on frozen blood worm?

Questions, questions.

Thank you all so much for your help but esp. Jollysue and Tolak.