Some Compatible Fish Ideas

[Isoturnip]

Hi all am quite new to fish keeping but have just upgraded from 100l to 180l tank. Wanted to add some more fish but not sure what will get on well with my existing fish. I currently have
1 plec
3 pearl gourami
2 opaline gourami
A striped headstander
1 korydora
2 clown loach and
1 kribensis

Wanted to add a few smaller pretty (for the mrs) fish like guppies or mollies. Does anyone have any advice on what might be a good choice? Thanks

 

[Byron]

Welcome to the forum.  I'm sorry to have some bad news in response to your first post, but can't help it.  Before you consider adding fish, you need to reconsider what you have.
 
I don't know the dimensions of this tank, but at 180 litres (roughly 50 gallons) it is not suitable for clown loaches.  This fish is highly social and must have a group of at least four, though that is risking it, and five would be better.  As this fish attains 8-12 inches, with 16 inches not unknown, it needs a lot of space.  I would serious consider re-homing the two clowns.
 
Corydoras (the catfish, presumably what you meant by korydora) is also a social fish and needs a group of at least five, but more would be much better.  So when considering additions, this fish is first on the list.
 
The "striped headstander" might be another serious problem; any idea what species this is?  Except for the small Chilodus punctatus, most of these if not all get very large, and many are semi-aggressive, and plant eaters.
 
The plec is also an uncertainty, depending upon the species.  Which one, do you know?
 
The gourami might be OK.  The pearl is relatively peaceful, and you could add a couple more, depending which sex you now have.  The opaline species is Trichopodus trichopterus, and it has several varieties such as the opaline, blue, gold, cosby, 3-spot, etc.  These are all the same species, and males can be quite nasty; depending whether you have female or male, trouble could be waiting to happen.  Males of this species might decide to attack the pearls.
 
Last comments on the guppies and mollies...the above issues need resolution first, but thinking ahead, mollies must have moderately hard to hard water or they willnot last.  Knowing the GH (general hardness) of your source water (I assume tap water) will hlep here, and you should be able to find this out from the website of your municipal water authority.
 
Byron.

 

[Munroco]

I agree with Byron, that isn't a good mix. You could ask your LFS if they will take your Loaches, opalines and the headstander, and get a few more cories and a mate for your solitary Krib. If you want pretty and your water is reasonably soft/neutral there are loads of varieties of tetras. Emperors are my personal favourite.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Welcome to the forum Iso!  
 
It is a shame to have folks tell you negative things on your first post, but you will be much happier with a fish tank that contains compatible fish (especially since you are asking the right questions!) and your fish will be far better off for it.
 
 
Many times we see folks who get advice from the LFS about their stocking only to find out here that they have a bad mix.  The truth is that folks here often have far more experience with the fish in question than the LFS employees, and while some employees in the LFS can be quite knowledgable, their station as an LFS employee does not guarantee that.  
 
Consider that the members who have posted above have only your best interests and the best interests of your fish in mind in giving you the bad news.  Byron and Munroco are correct in their assessment, and while things may not look like a problem right now, things in the future will not remain as placid.  
 
 
Sorry for the bad news, but its great to have you join us!  We hope that you enjoy your time with us.

 

[Isoturnip]

Hi Byron thanks for the reply i thought i may have a few issues with the current stock, having said that they have all been together in a smaller tank for the past year ish ao must have learned to get along a bit. Anyway the headstander is an Anostomus anostomus which i believe is fully grown but is about 6 inches. The plec i believe is just a common plec so i was aware he would get too big eventually but he is still quite young and small. The clon loach i also knew would need rehoming sooner or later but i have had these for about 2 years and they are still smaller than the gourami so wasnt concerned just yet. I will have a look to try to find out the water hardness and will post again. Think i will have to say goodbye to a few of the existing fish then to progress further. Thanks again for the advice will try to sort the current situation and will post again with a better base.
So just refreshed and seen the posts from others again thanks again for the advice and i will come back and get some proper advice this time before going any further. Merry christmas

 

[Byron]

There are a few comments I can offer here with this new data.  And please understand, as eaglesaquarium said, we primarily have the interests of the fish at heart.
 
On the Anostomus anostomus, this is a characin and thus a shoaling fish by nature, but with this species we have a difference.  It is fine in large groups, but in smaller within the confines of an aquarium it is usually fairly aggressive and nasty to its conspecifics, so one individual is better.  However, it is not a small fish...ranging from 15-20 cm or 6-8 inches.  And it is not a fish for tankmates that are sedate, like gourami.  It might not take kindly to corydoras.  This fish, as with the loaches, and the pleco, will be problems fairly soon.
 
And this brings me to the general point about fish and tank sizes.  While it is sometimes possible to maintain potentially large fish (meaning, fish that should naturally become fairly large) in tanks that are smaller than what will be needed eventually, allowing the fish to "grow" through ever larger tanks, this is not always a good method.  For one thing, many of us may intend larger tanks down the road, but circumstances may never make this a reality, and the fish is the one that pays the price.  Re-homing to other aquarists, stores, ewven public aquariums sometimes, may or may not be feasible either, and what happens when these options are not available?  Again, the fish suffers the consequences.
 
Another crucial aspect of this is the natural aspect of fish growing most of their lives.  As they "grow," they physically become larger, but there is also another aspect that is related but independent too, and that is the physiological development of the internal organs.  This continues, regardless of the physical aspect, and when the tank size prevents the proper growth physically (which does happen), the internal, development causes severe issues for the fish.  Stunting is the usual term for this.  The fish will have continual health problems that would otherwise not pose an issue, and always have a shorter than normal lifespan.  How fish feel pain and suffering is argued among aquarists, but if it can "feel" these, it certainly will.
 
Tank size also affects water chemistry.  Fish release pheromones and allomones continually, and other fish read them.  Larger water changes can alleviate some of this, but not all of it.  So the chemical ramificiations are also impacting both the subject fish and also all the other species in the tank.  Something like a domino effect.
 
These fish may have been together for a year, but as I hope will be evident from the above, the fish are being affected whether you can see anything or not.  It just occurs, because that is how nature designed things.  The great value of a forum such as TFF is the collective knowledge and experience of its members, and doing prior research is always the best policy.  For many years I have operated under a simple dual rule: I will never acquire a fish that I have not researched completely so I know everything about its life, habitat and maintenance; and second, I will never acquire a fish for which I do not today have a suitably-sized tank set up according to the needs of the fish species.  I am sure thia has saved me a lot of heartache, and it undoubtedly has saved fish.  As I wrote in another thread last week...when I acquire a fish, I do so with the understanding that the fish will live out its life in my aquarium.  "Temporary" acquisition of a fish is not something most of us condone, as it is not fair to the fish.  Maltreatment of any living creature is something we should not promote.
 
Byron.

 

[Far_King]

You may find that a common plec will grow faster and larger than you expect in a short period of time.  In six months they can go from an inch to over six inches and possibly eight.
 
I agree with everything that's been said about the stocking of your fish and we all make mistakes, especially when new to fishkeeping.   You're not the first and you certainly won't be the last!  As long as we learn from the mistakes it's all good.  Sadly I think you are looking at the prospect of rehoming a few of the fish you have.
I'd advise anyone to always do as much research as possible before buying any fish with a view to their long term health and environment, the suitable parameters of the water and the compatibility of the other species.
 
Are you intending to run both tanks or just the 180?
 
The Kribensis also hasn't been mentioned.  Can someone confirm if they should be kept in pairs?  I've never kept any as I always believed that was the case and I've got corydoras which I've heard Kribs can be temperamental with when spawning.  If the cory and the kribs need more stock this could cause issues too couldn't it?

 

[Munroco]

I did mention it earlier. IMO they are better kept in pairs. While they can be a bit territorial when breeding, I doubt they would bother the corys other than chasing them out of their territory

 

[Byron]

As it has been mentioned, I will add something on the kribs.  I have not kept this species, but I have over the years maintained various dwarf cichlids (both Mikrogeophagus species, several Apistogramma, Dicrossus and Crenicara) and they are not all that friendly to substrate fish like Corydoras.  The latter have their intriguing habit of poking their snouts everywhere, and cichlids being substrate feeders too, they are not enamoured of this habit.  When spawning, they can be quite nasty.  And if you have a pair of cichlids, they will almost certainly spawn (unless they refuse to bond) but rarely will eggs or fry survive, as the nocturnal catfish are very adept at eating them during darkness when the cichlid parents are off guard.
 
Byron.

 

[Far_King]

I did mention it earlier. IMO they are better kept in pairs. While they can be a bit territorial when breeding, I doubt they would bother the corys other than chasing them out of their territory

 
My apologies, so you did.
 

As it has been mentioned, I will add something on the kribs.  I have not kept this species, but I have over the years maintained various dwarf cichlids (both Mikrogeophagus species, several Apistogramma, Dicrossus and Crenicara) and they are not all that friendly to substrate fish like Corydoras.  The latter have their intriguing habit of poking their snouts everywhere, and cichlids being substrate feeders too, they are not enamoured of this habit.  When spawning, they can be quite nasty.  And if you have a pair of cichlids, they will almost certainly spawn (unless they refuse to bond) but rarely will eggs or fry survive, as the nocturnal catfish are very adept at eating them during darkness when the cichlid parents are off guard.
 
Byron.

 
So to summarise, as I expected, Kribs are best kept in pairs and cories are best kept as half a dozen but could not necessarily be considered "compatible" species when spawning.

 

[Munroco]

Not incompatible either. I wouldn't be worried keeping them together.

 

[Byron]

Perhaps I can best help by saying that many of the guides we follow are not hard and fast rules because individual fish may not always adhere to the normal behaviour for the species.  Often one just has to carefully observe the interaction between fish/species, and be prepared to intervene.  This is especially true when it comes to any cichlids.

 

[Jeremy180]

Well,  I'm just going to say that I think that what happened with your current stocking list is that you asked an LFS employee what fish would be suitable for your and unfortunately that employee turned out to be either improperly trained or dishonest,.
This is an all too common but IMO, Perfectly understandable situation. I mean The logical assumption is:
"If they work there they must know about what they're selling Right?"
Unfortunately, more often than not, that's not true.
 
On to your Aquarium:
The only 180 Litre aquarium I could find was the juwel rio 180 (101x 41x50cm), Is this your Aquarium model?
 
I'd hate to be beating a dead horse, but unfortunately, even when you don't include the Common Plec, headstander and Clown Loach, your tank is still too small for your remaining fish to reach a healthy adulthood.
 
If you still have the 100L you could maybe reshuffle some of the fish back into it, although if it's been shut down it will need to be cycled again first.
 
Let's see, to review you have:
I common Plecostomus]
Max length: 50.0 cm, usually to 28 cm PH 6.2-8.2 Temp 20-30c min tank size 120x48x55 cm Min group size:1
 
3 Pearl Gourami
Max length: 12 cm(4.8") PH: 5.5-8 Temp 24-30c min tank size: 90x30x30cm Min group size:1
 
2 Opaline Gourami
Max lengh:15cm  PH:5.5-8.5 Temp:22-30c Min tank size 90x30x30cm Min group size:1
 
1 Striped headstander (Anostomus anostomus)
Max length:15-20cm/ ph 5.5-8.0  temp 20-28c min tank size:120x30cm base Min group size:1
 
1 Corydoras (species unknown)
Prefer softer water, most species over 5cm (2") many prefer water in the 70s five of the same specis the minimum recommended number
It would really help if I knew the species on these, Please go to either:
www.fishbase.org/search.php
fishbase.mnhn.fr/search.php
(one or the other is usually down)
then please scroll down to:
"Information by family", select callycthyiidae in the first box, then click "Identification by pictures".
This should bring up the Callychthyid armored catfish fish identification page, which includes all corydoras, your fish should be there somewhere.
 
2 Clown Loaches
Max length: 200-300cm PH:5.0-8.0 Temp:24-30c Min tank size:180x60cm base min group size:5
 
1 Kiribensis
Max length: Male 11cm("4") Female7.5cm (3") PH:5.0-8.0 Temp:24-27c Min tank size:60x37x30cm min group size:1
(Tend to be less Aggro if kept singly)
 
Please note that the minimum tank size is assuming you are only keeping the fish in question, a community tank with these fish needs to be even larger.
As you can see, the pleco, clown loaches and headstanders unfortunately all require a minimum tank size that is larger than either of your current aquariums, IMO it would be best to return them or give/sell them to someone with a large enough tank.
Of Course, as  a third option you could always get a third MONSTER aquarium (200gal+) for some or all of them

 
I'll post about temperament compatibility later, I've got go somewhere for a while.

 

[the_lock_man]

Not incompatible either. I wouldn't be worried keeping them together.

 
Personally, I would. Kribs are exceptionally protective when they are spawning. You may be lucky with your individual fish, but not many people would consider this a general rule.