Si's Fishless Cycle

[PDSimon]

Taking the filter out for a little bit is fine, leaving it to dry out is not good though...if it will be out of the tank for any length of time I would suggest doing it when you do a water change so it can be put in the tank water whilst out.

Those colours are VERY close, holding the test tube up against a light background may help...the test is obviously made to highlight the gradual changes at the lower end. Not helpful when you need to figure out wjhat amount of ammonia to top up with though...

Is that a API test kit? I think the next kits I buy will be Salifert ones...unless that's one of those

Ok I think i'll just stick the floss in the bottom. It just looks like cotton wool buds really...

It is the API test kit yes... I think the ammonia may have actually gone down from 5 to 4 but i'm not to positive so i'll have to wait another couple of days to see.

On a positive note, my brother said he'd give me half of his filter element. I'm not sure which filter he has exactly so that might be too much for him to loose.

- my fluval has 2 foam pads, 2 poly/carbon cartridges and biomax(ceramic things). If his is the same, will it be ok to take one whole foam pad? waterdrop said general rule of thumb is 1/3 so i'll tell my brother that when I see him this weekend.

edit: I saw some firemouths today and they're tempting i saw some awesome shrimp too, 4 arms with round fan like hands. There were several in a semi circle. They all looked relaxed haha I am definately getting some when i've cycled

 

[kaivalagi]

Taking the filter out for a little bit is fine, leaving it to dry out is not good though...if it will be out of the tank for any length of time I would suggest doing it when you do a water change so it can be put in the tank water whilst out.

Those colours are VERY close, holding the test tube up against a light background may help...the test is obviously made to highlight the gradual changes at the lower end. Not helpful when you need to figure out wjhat amount of ammonia to top up with though...

Is that a API test kit? I think the next kits I buy will be Salifert ones...unless that's one of those

Ok I think i'll just stick the floss in the bottom. It just looks like cotton wool buds really...

It is the API test kit yes... I think the ammonia may have actually gone down from 5 to 4 but i'm not to positive so i'll have to wait another couple of days to see.

On a positive note, my brother said he'd give me half of his filter element. I'm not sure which filter he has exactly so that might be too much for him to loose.

- my fluval has 2 foam pads, 2 poly/carbon cartridges and biomax(ceramic things). If his is the same, will it be ok to take one whole foam pad? waterdrop said general rule of thumb is 1/3 so i'll tell my brother that when I see him this weekend.

edit: I saw some firemouths today and they're tempting i saw some awesome shrimp too, 4 arms with round fan like hands. There were several in a semi circle. They all looked relaxed haha I am definately getting some when i've cycled

Firemouths are cool, but do get fairly large, you have a roma 125 so I would recommend going with Apistos/Rams or other smaller fish (<5" at adult size). I know you can keep a firemouth or possibly 2 in that tank but if you're like me you'll want more fish and that will be acceptable when they're juvies. But they don't take that long to reach maturity and then the aggression can start proper, then you need a bigger tank or to lose some fish (which I just can't do )...atleast with the dwarf cichlids there are plenty of variety and you can have quite a few...

When I redo my Roma 125 I will be looking out for a pair of yellow convicts to attempt to breed as they range in max size from 3-4" and are a nice shaped bulky fish for the size (http/www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/central-american-cichlids/yellow-convict/100140.asp)

Sounds like the shrimp you saw was a bamboo shrimp (http/www.planetinverts.com/Bamboo_Shrimp.html) - make sure you read up on them as they need special consideration I think...they do get quite big too

As far as the media goes I would just sandwich what foam you get given in between the carbon pads and existing foam within the plastic holders that slide in/out of the filter...you may well have some room in the middle compartment which holds the bio-media...not sure where the floss could go to provide for the best filtration.

 

[PDSimon]

Taking the filter out for a little bit is fine, leaving it to dry out is not good though...if it will be out of the tank for any length of time I would suggest doing it when you do a water change so it can be put in the tank water whilst out.

Those colours are VERY close, holding the test tube up against a light background may help...the test is obviously made to highlight the gradual changes at the lower end. Not helpful when you need to figure out wjhat amount of ammonia to top up with though...

Is that a API test kit? I think the next kits I buy will be Salifert ones...unless that's one of those

Ok I think i'll just stick the floss in the bottom. It just looks like cotton wool buds really...

It is the API test kit yes... I think the ammonia may have actually gone down from 5 to 4 but i'm not to positive so i'll have to wait another couple of days to see.

On a positive note, my brother said he'd give me half of his filter element. I'm not sure which filter he has exactly so that might be too much for him to loose.

- my fluval has 2 foam pads, 2 poly/carbon cartridges and biomax(ceramic things). If his is the same, will it be ok to take one whole foam pad? waterdrop said general rule of thumb is 1/3 so i'll tell my brother that when I see him this weekend.

edit: I saw some firemouths today and they're tempting i saw some awesome shrimp too, 4 arms with round fan like hands. There were several in a semi circle. They all looked relaxed haha I am definately getting some when i've cycled

Firemouths are cool, but do get fairly large, you have a roma 125 so I would recommend going with Apistos/Rams or other smaller fish (<5" at adult size). I know you can keep a firemouth or possibly 2 in that tank but if you're like me you'll want more fish and that will be acceptable when they're juvies. But they don't take that long to reach maturity and then the aggression can start proper, then you need a bigger tank or to lose some fish (which I just can't do )...atleast with the dwarf cichlids there are plenty of variety and you can have quite a few...

When I redo my Roma 125 I will be looking out for a pair of yellow convicts to attempt to breed as they range in max size from 3-4" and are a nice shaped bulky fish for the size (http/www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/central-american-cichlids/yellow-convict/100140.asp)

Sounds like the shrimp you saw was a bamboo shrimp (http/www.planetinverts.com/Bamboo_Shrimp.html) - make sure you read up on them as they need special consideration I think...they do get quite big too

As far as the media goes I would just sandwich what foam you get given in between the carbon pads and existing foam within the plastic holders that slide in/out of the filter...you may well have some room in the middle compartment which holds the bio-media...not sure where the floss could go to provide for the best filtration.

Yeah, malawi(sp?) cichlids looked a bit plain at my LFS but the dwarfs would be the way forward if thats what I want or apistos/rams as you suggested. yellow convicts look awesome

It was very similar to that, but more transparent. I think it was called mountain fan something or other, i have an awful memory but I want them anyway haha.

Cheers for the help - much appreciated

p.s. I shoved the floss in the bottom where theres a hole, which seems to be where the water is sucked in. the guy at LFS said it needed changing a lot but its worth it for sand imo.

 

[kaivalagi]

I think with floss you can use other cheaper man made fibres that cost next to nothing in comparison to the aquarium branded stuff...I'm sure I read that pillow filling is a very good substitute (not the feather kind )

Anyone else have any opinions on this?

btw, I got my twin 54W t5 ballast today - went for a Hagen one in the end rather than the more expensive Arcadia variety, I am happy with it but proof will be in the usage...The new t5 tubes should arrive tomorrow, ordered them from lampspecs.co.uk (< £10 each before P&P) and based the choices on last option in this post: http/ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=555

 

[PDSimon]

I think with floss you can use other cheaper man made fibres that cost next to nothing in comparison to the aquarium branded stuff...I'm sure I read that pillow filling is a very good substitute (not the feather kind )

Anyone else have any opinions on this?

btw, I got my twin 54W t5 ballast today - went for a Hagen one in the end rather than the more expensive Arcadia variety, I am happy with it but proof will be in the usage...The new t5 tubes should arrive tomorrow, ordered them from lampspecs.co.uk (< £10 each before P&P) and based the choices on last option in this post: http/ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=555

It was only 1.50 for a roll of it so should last me a while

It wouldn't let me see the post without an account unfortunately! It reminds me though, I need to order my plants online because my LFS have a very limited amount.

Is this for your yellow convicts then?

 

[kaivalagi]

It was only 1.50 for a roll of it so should last me a while

Can't be bad...

It wouldn't let me see the post without an account unfortunately! It reminds me though, I need to order my plants online because my LFS have a very limited amount.

Worth registering...there's some nifty planted tank info on there....but I still advice to posting questions on this site, the people that reply are just plain nice

Is this for your yellow convicts then?

New ballast and tubes for the new tank.......when it blinking arrives. The tubes are just short of 5ft long, not bad for < £10 a pop...and good ones too.

The yellow convicts, if I can find any, will be going into the Roma 125 after a fishless cycle with added media (the old pads that came from the internal filter that currently sit in the external)...but all that will happen long after I have completed all the projects I want to get through with the new big tank.....after it arrives

Can you tell I'm getting a little peeved with the LFS about my new tank still not being here

 

[PDSimon]

It was only 1.50 for a roll of it so should last me a while

Can't be bad...

It wouldn't let me see the post without an account unfortunately! It reminds me though, I need to order my plants online because my LFS have a very limited amount.

Worth registering...there's some nifty planted tank info on there....but I still advice to posting questions on this site, the people that reply are just plain nice

Is this for your yellow convicts then?

New ballast and tubes for the new tank.......when it blinking arrives. The tubes are just short of 5ft long, not bad for < £10 a pop...and good ones too.

The yellow convicts, if I can find any, will be going into the Roma 125 after a fishless cycle with added media (the old pads that came from the internal filter that currently sit in the external)...but all that will happen long after I have completed all the projects I want to get through with the new big tank.....after it arrives

Can you tell I'm getting a little peeved with the LFS about my new tank still not being here

I will check that site out definately!

unlucky, now you know how I felt Sounds like you've got a good dead on those bulbs though.

edit: I got a rock today, nice and big with holes and caves so should be nice for the fish.

 

[kaivalagi]

I will check that site out definately!

unlucky, now you know how I felt Sounds like you've got a good dead on those bulbs though.

edit: I got a rock today, nice and big with holes and caves so should be nice for the fish.

The post I linked to on that site shows the quality of some of the content people put together, nice pics showing the look of a variety of combinations of 2 x tubes in a planted tank...a little bit nerdy but I like that

lampspecs have quite a good selection of tubes to pick from, if you need new tubes I'd recommend getting them there...

Is the rock white? The sort of thing used for marine/african cichlid tanks? If so be a little careful as it might up the pH a little... remember apistos like more acidic than alkaline water...

Get a nice couple of pieces of bog wood too, I picked up a big piece of bogwood (18"x12"x12") for £12...it wont fit in my Roma 125....it's gonna sit in the middle of the new tank and will have some moss on it and maybe a java fern too...

 

[PDSimon]

I will check that site out definately!

unlucky, now you know how I felt Sounds like you've got a good dead on those bulbs though.

edit: I got a rock today, nice and big with holes and caves so should be nice for the fish.

The post I linked to on that site shows the quality of some of the content people put together, nice pics showing the look of a variety of combinations of 2 x tubes in a planted tank...a little bit nerdy but I like that

lampspecs have quite a good selection of tubes to pick from, if you need new tubes I'd recommend getting them there...

Is the rock white? The sort of thing used for marine/african cichlid tanks? If so be a little careful as it might up the pH a little... remember apistos like more acidic than alkaline water...

Get a nice couple of pieces of bog wood too, I picked up a big piece of bogwood (18"x12"x12") for £12...it wont fit in my Roma 125....it's gonna sit in the middle of the new tank and will have some moss on it and maybe a java fern too...

It is!! #40## (you can't type da-mn?) it haha. It's been sitting there for a while, but all the other stones (i've looked in various places) are really boring. So I thought i'd get it before anyone else!

I think i'll have to source the bogwood from online too... It looks nice I was looking for some in my LFS. That should bring the pH back down if the stone brings it up?

I'll keep an eye on the pH though, thanks

 

[kaivalagi]

It is!! #40## (you can't type da-mn?) it haha. It's been sitting there for a while, but all the other stones (i've looked in various places) are really boring. So I thought i'd get it before anyone else!

I think i'll have to source the bogwood from online too... It looks nice I was looking for some in my LFS. That should bring the pH back down if the stone brings it up?

I'll keep an eye on the pH though, thanks

Knowing the natural pH of your water is about the same as mine (~7.5) it might be okay...can you post a pic of the rock just so we know what it is for sure? You really want a pH of 7 or less for Apisto's. More like 6 for breeding them I think.

Bogwood will bring pH down, how much will depend on how much it leaches back into the water I think...I am hoping my big bit will drop the pH down to around 7 but am new to this side of things and haven't experienced the affects of bogwood fully before. I have a small piece of driftwood in my current tank which has had little to no affect as it doesn't leach at all from what I can tell, it's a much lighter wood than the bog wood.

See how it goes, if your pH rises after being fully cycled then you'll know why and can choose to remove the rock if you so wish, and within a couple of water changes your pH will start drop again. I'd keep the thing out of the tank for now though, same goes for bogwood, as I think you want to keep a steady pH whilst you do your fish-less cycle (but I could be wrong )

 

[PDSimon]

It is!! #40## (you can't type da-mn?) it haha. It's been sitting there for a while, but all the other stones (i've looked in various places) are really boring. So I thought i'd get it before anyone else!

I think i'll have to source the bogwood from online too... It looks nice I was looking for some in my LFS. That should bring the pH back down if the stone brings it up?

I'll keep an eye on the pH though, thanks

Knowing the natural pH of your water is about the same as mine (~7.5) it might be okay...can you post a pic of the rock just so we know what it is for sure? You really want a pH of 7 or less for Apisto's. More like 6 for breeding them I think.

Bogwood will bring pH down, how much will depend on how much it leaches back into the water I think...I am hoping my big bit will drop the pH down to around 7 but am new to this side of things and haven't experienced the affects of bogwood fully before. I have a small piece of driftwood in my current tank which has had little to no affect as it doesn't leach at all from what I can tell, it's a much lighter wood than the bog wood.

See how it goes, if your pH rises after being fully cycled then you'll know why and can choose to remove the rock if you so wish, and within a couple of water changes your pH will start drop again. I'd keep the thing out of the tank for now though, same goes for bogwood, as I think you want to keep a steady pH whilst you do your fish-less cycle (but I could be wrong )

the tank was 7.6pH before I even put the rock in

here it is anyway

I know you definately don't want a low pH during the cycle.

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, the cheapest filter floss is pillow stuffing at Walmart. The trick is you've got to carefully try to figure out and make sure its not the stuff that's been sprayed with fire retardant. Sometimes people decide that the trouble of figuring that out is not worth the slight savings if you don't have a fish room full of tanks.

White rocks? ...possibly very risky. You can submerge it in a container of tap water and have another container of tap water drawn at the same time and check the hardness and pH over a couple of weeks if you really want to get serious about it.

OK, the green 4 vs. 8 on the API ammonia test... When you're trying to figure out your 4ppm for fishless cycling tank dosing what you can do is go by the calculator as a starting point and then try to see how that test (20min later) seems to hold up against the 4ppm match vs. the 8ppm match. Avoid compact fluorescents (which can give a greenish cast) or fluorescents in general for that matter as they vary a lot in color. What I used to do was to get the type of incandescent lamp that has a metal hood (like a desk lamp for studying or one on a tripod where the metal is pretty close around the bulb. I put that between me and the testtube I'm holding agains the white part of the card. That's a lot of very direct light and it tends to differentiate it more. It also takes time to understand the skill of seeing "hue" rather than "contrast." (but you get it eventually)... the other thing is that in the long run you will increasingly find that the kit results do not -need- to be differentiated so finely and that your skill at just wanting to know whether someting is high or low or when it changes will take over more and more. I know that's not very comforting for your specific question but that's about the best I can do.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[PDSimon]

Yeah, the cheapest filter floss is pillow stuffing at Walmart. The trick is you've got to carefully try to figure out and make sure its not the stuff that's been sprayed with fire retardant. Sometimes people decide that the trouble of figuring that out is not worth the slight savings if you don't have a fish room full of tanks.

White rocks? ...possibly very risky. You can submerge it in a container of tap water and have another container of tap water drawn at the same time and check the hardness and pH over a couple of weeks if you really want to get serious about it.

OK, the green 4 vs. 8 on the API ammonia test... When you're trying to figure out your 4ppm for fishless cycling tank dosing what you can do is go by the calculator as a starting point and then try to see how that test (20min later) seems to hold up against the 4ppm match vs. the 8ppm match. Avoid compact fluorescents (which can give a greenish cast) or fluorescents in general for that matter as they vary a lot in color. What I used to do was to get the type of incandescent lamp that has a metal hood (like a desk lamp for studying or one on a tripod where the metal is pretty close around the bulb. I put that between me and the testtube I'm holding agains the white part of the card. That's a lot of very direct light and it tends to differentiate it more. It also takes time to understand the skill of seeing "hue" rather than "contrast." (but you get it eventually)... the other thing is that in the long run you will increasingly find that the kit results do not -need- to be differentiated so finely and that your skill at just wanting to know whether someting is high or low or when it changes will take over more and more. I know that's not very comforting for your specific question but that's about the best I can do.

~~waterdrop~~

thank you

 

[kaivalagi]

Other options to bring down pH are "Peat Slugs" which you can put into your filter....starting to get a feeling you need an external filter yet

I think you could potentially place plant roots into peat filled nylon tight balls and then put those into the sand, but I haven't read much about that...just something I might well try at some point.

"Peat" is the thing...it introducing the acidic requirements you'll have for Apisto.

The slugs/pellets are slow release I think so not too much hassle to maintain either, and I think the plants would be grateful, as the pH wouldn't just lower but extra trace nutrients would be added to the tank water.

I think Almond Leaves are another thing to use?

But I haven't looked into any of this properly, I was planning to for Apisto's but now I want to keep my 2 tanks water chemistry the same so I have flexibility for temp fish moves etc...that if I can find nice small CA cichlids that suit for smaller tank long term such as a yellow convict pair...

You haven't picked any fish just yet though so you do still have other options...such as a nice pair of yellow convicts that will like the standard pH just fine

 

[PDSimon]

Other options to bring down pH are "Peat Slugs" which you can put into your filter....starting to get a feeling you need an external filter yet

I think you could potentially place plant roots into peat filled nylon tight balls and then put those into the sand, but I haven't read much about that...just something I might well try at some point.

"Peat" is the thing...it introducing the acidic requirements you'll have for Apisto.

The slugs/pellets are slow release I think so not too much hassle to maintain either, and I think the plants would be grateful, as the pH wouldn't just lower but extra trace nutrients would be added to the tank water.

I think Almond Leaves are another thing to use?

But I haven't looked into any of this properly, I was planning to for Apisto's but now I want to keep my 2 tanks water chemistry the same so I have flexibility for temp fish moves etc...that if I can find nice small CA cichlids that suit for smaller tank long term such as a yellow convict pair...

You haven't picked any fish just yet though so you do still have other options...such as a nice pair of yellow convicts that will like the standard pH just fine

Cheers and I know, who knows what i'll end up with

Do you think fish like cichlids would be a bit to much for someones first tank? especially as it won't be mature?