Si's Fishless Cycle

[PDSimon]

I meant ammonia, I was referring to ammonia being processed. For example since the readings have been off the chart, I've added 30ppm of ammonia. Well if that 1ppm of ammonia converts to 2.7ppm of nitrite then theres 81ppm of nitrite? I imagine some of it has been processed although I've still only got 5ppm of nitrates.

I just figured 81ppm would be over the optimum and maybe a waterchange would help. I'd redose yeah

Its only a theory really, which I was wondering waterdrops opinion on Like human cells are optimum at 37(i think) and going under that or over that changes thing considerably. Obviously this is different but hopefully you get the point I am making

But your Ammonia reading on the first post is zero?

Why did you add so much ammonia? What happened to the 3ppm once until nitrates drop and then add again? Or am I missing a trick here?

haha sorry, I mean I have been having off the chart readings for nitrites yeah? for 10 days now. well 10 days of 3ppm (because ammonia has been 0 every day as it should be) is 30ppm of ammonia, well thats all cycled, but not into nitrates yet...its still nitrates and 1ppm of ammonia = 2.7ppm of nitrites so its 81ppm! thats just for the off the chart readings, not to mention the ~7days of 5ppm which were probably off the chart too.

Ammonia is 0 and has been for ages... but nitrates are ridiuclously high, I was just using the ammonia adding as a guideline to how much nitrite is in the tank

So I figured if excess nitrites is slowing things down won't a waterchange do it some good?

 

[kaivalagi]

So I figured if excess nitrites is slowing things down won't a waterchange do it some good?

How high does your liquid test for nitrites go? Do you think it might be dropping, just not into the range of your testing yet?

 

[PDSimon]

So I figured if excess nitrites is slowing things down won't a waterchange do it some good?

How high does your liquid test for nitrites go? Do you think it might be dropping, just not into the range of your testing yet?

it goes to 5ppm. Well it's started going green the last few days..and it doesn't seem to just start going grey like it was. It seems to just be going green quicker! green which is no where near any colour on the chart btw

 

[kaivalagi]

it goes to 5ppm. Well it's started going green the last few days..and it doesn't seem to just start going grey like it was. It seems to just be going green quicker! green which is no where near any colour on the chart btw

The trouble is even if you do a 90% water change you are still left with over 8ppm, so it will still be off the chart

I'd say you need waterdrop's advice on this one, it might be better to leave it, not sure how this part of the cycle really works...

 

[PDSimon]

it goes to 5ppm. Well it's started going green the last few days..and it doesn't seem to just start going grey like it was. It seems to just be going green quicker! green which is no where near any colour on the chart btw

The trouble is even if you do a 90% water change you are still left with over 8ppm, so it will still be off the chart

I'd say you need waterdrop's advice on this one, it might be better to leave it, not sure how this part of the cycle really works...

but 8ppm might speed up the rest of the process

Who knows

 

[kaivalagi]

but 8ppm might speed up the rest of the process

Who knows

Can you not dilute the water until you get a good reading, so you can measure where things are going? Or have you been doing that already?

1 part tank water to 19 parts tap water to give a 5% representation (assuming you know your tap water nitrite rating) would allow you to understand what you're dealing with right?

 

[PDSimon]

but 8ppm might speed up the rest of the process

Who knows

Can you not dilute the water until you get a good reading, so you can measure where things are going? Or have you been doing that already?

1 part tank water to 19 parts tap water to give a 5% representation (assuming you know your tap water nitrite rating) would allow you to understand what you're dealing with right?

I have nothing to mix it in... got any ideas?

 

[kaivalagi]

but 8ppm might speed up the rest of the process

Who knows

Can you not dilute the water until you get a good reading, so you can measure where things are going? Or have you been doing that already?

1 part tank water to 19 parts tap water to give a 5% representation (assuming you know your tap water nitrite rating) would allow you to understand what you're dealing with right?

I have nothing to mix it in... got any ideas?

A measuring jug, glass or plastic, anything you can measure with or pour into measured amounts really...you could use the test vial / syringe to measure out amounts then pour those into a cup...your only going to need 100ml of space for the job. Assuming it is a 5ml testing method...95ml tap water at 0?ppm with 5ml tank water at 80ppm mixed together and then 5ml moved into a test vial and tested would give you a reading of 4ppm....

 

[PDSimon]

yeah 95ml of tap water would be 0ppm, it has no nitrates...

I'll see if I can find something

edit: just tested normally for nitrites, going bright green almost!

 

[kaivalagi]

yeah 95ml of tap water would be 0ppm, it has no nitrates...

I'll see if I can find something

edit: just tested normally for nitrites, going bright green almost!

Is that good? I don't have the same test kit so am not sure what the colours mean...

 

[PDSimon]

yeah 95ml of tap water would be 0ppm, it has no nitrates...

I'll see if I can find something

edit: just tested normally for nitrites, going bright green almost!

Is that good? I don't have the same test kit so am not sure what the colours mean...

no the colours go from 0 blue to 5 purple

I just did two tests, I did 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water and the result was 5ppm

I then did 0.5ml with 4.5ml of tap water and the result was hard to distinguish from. Similar to the levels I was getting before it was off the chaat. so about 5ppm for both...

so forgetting the second test, if its 1 part tank water to 4 parts tap = 5ppm. that means I have... 25ppm of nitrates? Is that right? my maths isn't so good

 

[kaivalagi]

yeah 95ml of tap water would be 0ppm, it has no nitrates...

I'll see if I can find something

edit: just tested normally for nitrites, going bright green almost!

Is that good? I don't have the same test kit so am not sure what the colours mean...

no the colours go from 0 blue to 5 purple

I just did two tests, I did 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water and the result was 5ppm

I then did 0.5ml with 4.5ml of tap water and the result was hard to distinguish from. Similar to the levels I was getting before it was off the chaat. so about 5ppm for both...

so forgetting the second test, if its 1 part tank water to 4 parts tap = 5ppm. that means I have... 25ppm of nitrates? Is that right? my maths isn't so good

at 1/5 (1 part to 4 parts) you get 5ppm so yes, 25ppm of nitrates

To be more accurate you would be better using larger amounts of both tank and tap water to dilute with, then mixing and removing some for testing...mixing only 0.5ml with 4.5ml means if you get 0.5ml out which would be easy your results could be way off.

I hope that made sense

 

[PDSimon]

yeah 95ml of tap water would be 0ppm, it has no nitrates...

I'll see if I can find something

edit: just tested normally for nitrites, going bright green almost!

Is that good? I don't have the same test kit so am not sure what the colours mean...

no the colours go from 0 blue to 5 purple

I just did two tests, I did 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water and the result was 5ppm

I then did 0.5ml with 4.5ml of tap water and the result was hard to distinguish from. Similar to the levels I was getting before it was off the chaat. so about 5ppm for both...

so forgetting the second test, if its 1 part tank water to 4 parts tap = 5ppm. that means I have... 25ppm of nitrates? Is that right? my maths isn't so good

at 1/5 (1 part to 4 parts) you get 5ppm so yes, 25ppm of nitrates

To be more accurate you would be better using larger amounts of both tank and tap water to dilute with, then mixing and removing some for testing...mixing only 0.5ml with 4.5ml means if you get 0.5ml out which would be easy your results could be way off.

I hope that made sense

yup...I realised that..but it'll do

 

[waterdrop]

Just had a look at your log Si. I don't see anything wrong. Even though your nitrite spike is clearly still way up there, you still have a pH closer to 8 than 7 and if your nitrate(NO3) testing is working its not showing them being too high. Since you are only at one month, none of this is particularly surprising or indicating any problems as far as I can tell.

One thing you might try: The nitrate(NO3) tests tend to have a problem with a precipitate in reagent bottle #2 (on API) and the crystals can get stuck in the bottom of the bottle or in the drip tube of the neck. Its not only important to to strong shaking of the bottle for the full instruction periods (or longer even) but also to perhaps whack the bottle a few times against some hard surfaces to help break loose the crystals if they exist (which of course you can't see!) This at least increases your chance of getting something meaningful out of the NO3 test, although despite doing them right they are notoriously unreliable sometimes, no matter who the manufacturer (although I believe the difficulties vary.)

Why bother to think about all that? Well, I don't usually bother to recommend any "kickstart" water changing for a fishless cycle until something seems really wrong. A pH crash is the most obvious (sudden drop down past 6.2) but also sometimes really heavy nitrites and nitrates together can be a reason to water change. Usually the most effective time is during the third phase because often when nitrites finally drop, one will detect a sudden spike in nitrates and a lowering of pH unless there's a lot of buffering.

But sometimes, when people are bored and have the time on the weekend I feel it may be ok to do a big 90% gravel-clean-water-change and recharge ammonia afterward even though the only thing you are clearing out is nitrites basically. I don't know. Some feel (perhaps legitimately) that this is simply interrupting the smooth progression of the cycling process. There's some truth to this in that any water change during fishless cycling usually disrupts things and causes the bacteria to seem to pause for at least a day. But on the other hand, if their bacterial soup environment improves, it could be worth it. One thing's for certain: each period of fishless cycing can have its long periods of seemingly nothing happening!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[PDSimon]

Just had a look at your log Si. I don't see anything wrong. Even though your nitrite spike is clearly still way up there, you still have a pH closer to 8 than 7 and if your nitrate(NO3) testing is working its not showing them being too high. Since you are only at one month, none of this is particularly surprising or indicating any problems as far as I can tell.

One thing you might try: The nitrate(NO3) tests tend to have a problem with a precipitate in reagent bottle #2 (on API) and the crystals can get stuck in the bottom of the bottle or in the drip tube of the neck. Its not only important to to strong shaking of the bottle for the full instruction periods (or longer even) but also to perhaps whack the bottle a few times against some hard surfaces to help break loose the crystals if they exist (which of course you can't see!) This at least increases your chance of getting something meaningful out of the NO3 test, although despite doing them right they are notoriously unreliable sometimes, no matter who the manufacturer (although I believe the difficulties vary.)

Why bother to think about all that? Well, I don't usually bother to recommend any "kickstart" water changing for a fishless cycle until something seems really wrong. A pH crash is the most obvious (sudden drop down past 6.2) but also sometimes really heavy nitrites and nitrates together can be a reason to water change. Usually the most effective time is during the third phase because often when nitrites finally drop, one will detect a sudden spike in nitrates and a lowering of pH unless there's a lot of buffering.

But sometimes, when people are bored and have the time on the weekend I feel it may be ok to do a big 90% gravel-clean-water-change and recharge ammonia afterward even though the only thing you are clearing out is nitrites basically. I don't know. Some feel (perhaps legitimately) that this is simply interrupting the smooth progression of the cycling process. There's some truth to this in that any water change during fishless cycling usually disrupts things and causes the bacteria to seem to pause for at least a day. But on the other hand, if their bacterial soup environment improves, it could be worth it. One thing's for certain: each period of fishless cycing can have its long periods of seemingly nothing happening!

~~waterdrop~~

Hi waterdrop, thanks for the info

Yeah, I was just curious because I would have thought to optimise the conditions of the "soup" removing the nitrites may be useful, because if say x ammonia passed through, and causes y nitrites, these would then become nitrate. Rather than nitrites building up (which aren't the conditions that the bacteria require).

I feel the ammonia part of the process is nice and smooth progression, but the nitrite just seems although theres suddenly tonnes of nitrites and the bacteria are struggling to multiply, possibly even more so by the excess of nitrites. We're adding the ammonia in nice levels but the nitrites are just random and excessive?

I'm not really sure what the nitrites are doing but I'm hoping for a drop soon! Otherwise I may be doing a big water change.

I will try the nitrate testing trick, I've always done the minute shaking but not the hitting