Silver Dollars And Baby Piranha

[snowflake311]

I know it is a bad Idea. But I found a baby 2" piranha at the pet store it came in with a shipment of Silver dollars. It's 8$ because it is priced as a sliver dollar but clearly is not. I have a 100Gal Tank with four 7" Silver dollars, A 9" Uaru, 6" Delhezi, 6" Pictus cat, and 6" buffalo head.
 
[SIZE=12.727272033691406px]A part of me whats to rescue this [/SIZE]piranha because someone is going to buy it thinking they have a silver dollar than it will grow up and then what? At least I know what I am getting.
 
So what to do what to do? I have a feeling the best thing to do would be say no and move on. But this other part of me wants a piranha tank. Its only one they don't have others.
 
 
 

 

[Ichthys]

If it's a shoaling spp you'll need a group of 6+ and a huge tank.

 

[DrRob]

Indeed, most of the piranhas you see are from the schoaling groups, so they'll be far more comfortable in a group. They can be kept with other fish occasionally. They're often seen in tank with the larger plecs, but I've also seen them take large gibbiceps plecs to pieces when the mood (or opportunity) has taken them.
 
So, if you can find some more and give them a nice, heavily planted lowish light tank of a good size then go for it. Personally I find them relatively dull once the idea of it being a piranha tank has subsided, there are some far more impressive predator tanks you can go for given the space.
 
My only real point of concern with this though is exactly what the ID is. If it's already been mislabelled then there are a lot of species out there that look a lot like each other as juveniles, and end up quite wildly different. Is it one of the usual red bellies that we see in the hobby or is it something else? If the latter then maybe a photo if you can sneak one in the store.

 

[Byron]

I concur with what others are saying here.  As Rob pointed out, there are several species of characins that may be labelled "piranha," and they can be very different in behaviours; only a couple species are what most people think of when they see "piranha."  But all have one thing in common...they absolutely must be in a group of their own species.  If not, they will almost certainly become frustrated and this usually means increased aggression beyond the norm, whether the "norm" is aggression or peacefulness.
 
Most of the species get a decent size, and this means a big tank space.
 
Byron.

 

[Ichthys]

Not all Piranhas actually shoal. Some are loners. So we need to identify them before we go putting loners in groups, which will not work.

 

[Byron]

Not all Piranhas actually shoal. Some are loners. So we need to identify them before we go putting loners in groups, which will not work.

 
Are these likely to be available in stores under the name piranhas?  I'm not familiar with non-shoaling so I'd welcome some species info if you could please.
 
Byron.

 

[Ichthys]

Not all Piranhas actually shoal. Some are loners. So we need to identify them before we go putting loners in groups, which will not work.

 
Are these likely to be available in stores under the name piranhas?  I'm not familiar with non-shoaling so I'd welcome some species info if you could please.
 
Byron.

Yes many of them are available.

Pygocentrus spp shoal. This covers the Red Piranha (P. nattereri), and P. caribe, the two most commonly kept spp.

Most if not all Serrasalmus spp do not shoal but are solitary fish, at least as adults. There are some commonly kept spp in Serrasalmus, especially the White/Black Piranha, S. rhombeus.

 

[Byron]

 

 

Not all Piranhas actually shoal. Some are loners. So we need to identify them before we go putting loners in groups, which will not work.

 
Are these likely to be available in stores under the name piranhas?  I'm not familiar with non-shoaling so I'd welcome some species info if you could please.
 
Byron.

Yes many of them are available.

Pygocentrus spp shoal. This covers the Red Piranha (P. nattereri), and P. caribe, the two most commonly kept spp.

Most if not all Serrasalmus spp do not shoal but are solitary fish, at least as adults. There are some commonly kept spp in Serrasalmus, especially the White/Black Piranha, S. rhombeus.
 


 
Thanks for the data.  I will take a look into these.  B.

 

[snowflake311]

Well Turns out it is a Red Bellied Pacu. I bought it too

 It came out of hiding when I looked at it. I know it will be too big for my 100Gal I will re-home it when the time comes. It's so cute.     

 

[DrRob]

Ohhhh, better get a huge tank and quickly, those are tankbusters, they grow rapidly and will end up needing something in the 250 gallon category minimum, which is quite the serious undertaking.

 

[Byron]

This is a big mistake, snowflake.  See if the store will take it back.  It is a shoaling species when young, becoming more solitary as it matures, but it should attain 24 inches and fish have been known to reach 35 inches which is three feet.  Fish grow continually, so it needs a lot of space from the start.  Kept in close quarters (as the fish sees it) this is certain to result in an unhealthy and likely deformed fish, which is not fair to the fish.  Read more here:
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/piaractus-brachypomus/

 

[snowflake311]

Yes this is a big fish. Yes it will get really big. I am well aware of that. It is going to take 1year for it to be over 12". So I have some time he is only 2" right now. It's like I am going to wake up one day to a 3 foot fish. So I have time to figure out if I can get a larger tank than my 100 Gal. I have a 100Gal it's 5 feet long not that small of a tank. If I can not get a larger tank I have option. Where I work they have a HUGE 500Gal fresh water tank. When it comes down to it I will see if I can give them my fish. That way I can still see it. Or I will contact Zoos and public aquariums. I also know of some people that have pounds for pet oscars. That would be an option. OR I just eat it. I read they were being over fished in the amazon and are now protected. They raise them in farms. JK I will not eat him.   
 
There are other monster fish keepers in Nor Cal I Could find someone to take it and I am willing to drive and delver it. 
 
Also the size a fish gets in an aquarium is rarely as big as it's wild relatives. I think this fish will get to be 15" in my care. I have grown out some large SA Cichlids and they hit their mature size in a year or 2 than slowly grow more after that. The bigger the fish the longer it lives and the bigger it gets yes. 
 
I have plans for this fish more than that pet store has they will just resell it to someone that will kill it. So I am not going to bring the fish back to the store I will deal with it when the times comes. I have become attached to this little monster his name is Chomps. I think 

 

[Byron]

I intended not to respond further as it seems to be of little value what any of us say, but you are making assumptions here that are completely false and other non-experienced members may well read this and with no rebuttal assume it holds.
 
First, the 24-inch size quoted from SF are in aquaria.  Fish grow continually through out their lives, and what we may think is sufficient space at this or that stage may not be so to the fish who is developing both externally and internally.  Stunting is very easy to achieve, and then the fish has had it.  If this fish only gets to 15 inches, it is a sure sign of internal issues brought on most probably by inadequate growing space.  The physical space is one part, the other is the water conditions resulting from that space.
 
Second, a 5-foot 100g tank is no where near sufficient space for this fish at maturity or anywhere close to it.  SF gives the minimum tank as 10 feet in length and holding 2550 litres (673 gallons).  Frankly, this is a species that belongs in public aquaria.
 
The options you list, at least those that are realistic, should be entered into now, so the fish can settle into its permanent home, which would be kinder to the fish in the long-run.

 

[snowflake311]

You can't put a 2" fish in with other monster fish. This little guy will need to grow out before he can be housed with larger monster fish. It's called a grow out tank my 100gal will be his grow out tank. Most monster fish keepers do not just throw a baby fish with other monsters in a large tank. That is just asking for the baby to be killed or starved. SO I am going to have to disagree with you saying I need to put this baby in a 500+ Gal tank right now or it will suffer. That simply is not true. 
 
You grow the fish out than you can house it with other large fish. I am saying 15" in 2 years. These fish can live up to 40 years. But after 2 years the growth slows down yes by the time the fish is about 10 years old he could be 2 feet or bigger. I am not disagreeing with anyone on the size of this fish. 
 
I agree this fish needs a pond not a fish tank. No where did I ever say I was going to keep the fish for it's entire life in my 100gal. I know I can't. I live in Tahoe I can't make a tropical pound for him, If I could I would. What I can do is grow it out a bit and find a home for him when he is larger enough to hold his own with other big fish.
 
I am done. The fish is growing out with me and will be moved to a proper home when the time comes. He will be free to anyone with a pound or extra large tank.  That has been my plan all along. If you really read my post you would know that.  I have no intentions of keeping him in my 100gal for the rest of him life. I just rescued him. 
 
Would it be better to bring it back to the store where someone would buy it as a silver dollar? It was labeled as a silver dollar. Someone that knows nothing of fish and only has a 50 gal tank. Or should I keep him and find him a home when he is big enough to live in a monster tank. 
 
These fish should not be sold as pets. 

 

[Ichthys]

It could easily exceed 15" in a year (if you put it in that big tank now).