Silver Dolars Dying

[lucc]

Hi, this gonna be very long to explain it all. Sorry.
I have(had)3 silver dollars for ten months now and I´m begginer. Two of them stopped eating flakes and lettuce and only eaten their favourite dry tablet which I have for botias.The biggest one stopped eating flakes several days ago. And now doesn´t eat. They started to be resstles aboout 25 days ago immiadiatelly after switching the light off at night. First only ocasional flashing (turning on the side and hitting/brushing against the leaves)then in later days the behaviour was increasing, till the were hitting everything glass, filtr, jumping out (again the minute the light went off). Sometimes the fish was close to the surface breathing havily. But nothing even when watching with magnifying mirror was visible at all - nothing seemed to be wrong at all. I siffoned the gravel well/changed 40% of the water in the begging of the symptomes when they were not that exagerated, but no help. Put in fungal/parasitic medicine later when things were getting worse, no help. Changed the water and put another medicine after several days this one was also against gill flukes. Now we changed water again - taken gravel/pebbles out (don´t have much of them) and there was almost no build up of anything. Taken also everything out - almost all of the plants. The latest development is that 1 silver dollar died gasping for air yesterday morning(when I saw they were gasping for air - I swithed extra oxygen on but he died 15 minutes after I switched it on). By this time they were all in a bad way - swimming seemingly badly. Second one jumped out when changing water,I put him back and then later in the evening hit his head against the top/roof badly. When we were taking everything out and siffoning bottom as I described erlier he jumped out again. This time I felt that enough is enough and let him die. The last one is very sick and if he gets to unbearable stage will have to let him die. I searched on the internet till my head was spinnig to find out what could it be. But still I don´t know. I´m sure it is my fault I´m a beginner and u will probably tell me that I overlooked something basic. My rest of the fish 10 harlequins, 8 punteus titteya and 2 botias marac. seems OK eventhough 3 days ago I saw exagerated flashing in botia and 1 or 2 harleq. Yesterday and today they seemd ok and are eating. Thank u all.

 

[Carlovel1]

Tank capacity?

 

[shelaghfishface]

have you tested the tank?

 

[Bignose]

Moved to the Characins section as it will hopefully get the advice it needs here. The scientific section is more for in-depth discussion of the science of different parts of fishkeeping.

 

[lucc]

Hi, this gonna be very long to explain it all. Sorry.
I have(had)3 silver dollars for ten months now and I´m begginer. Two of them stopped eating flakes and lettuce and only eaten their favourite dry tablet which I have for botias.The biggest one stopped eating flakes several days ago. And now doesn´t eat. They started to be resstles aboout 25 days ago immiadiatelly after switching the light off at night. First only ocasional flashing (turning on the side and hitting/brushing against the leaves)then in later days the behaviour was increasing, till the were hitting everything glass, filtr, jumping out (again the minute the light went off). Sometimes the fish was close to the surface breathing havily. But nothing even when watching with magnifying mirror was visible at all - nothing seemed to be wrong at all. I siffoned the gravel well/changed 40% of the water in the begging of the symptomes when they were not that exagerated, but no help. Put in fungal/parasitic medicine later when things were getting worse, no help. Changed the water and put another medicine after several days this one was also against gill flukes. Now we changed water again - taken gravel/pebbles out (don´t have much of them) and there was almost no build up of anything. Taken also everything out - almost all of the plants. The latest development is that 1 silver dollar died gasping for air yesterday morning(when I saw they were gasping for air - I swithed extra oxygen on but he died 15 minutes after I switched it on). By this time they were all in a bad way - swimming seemingly badly. Second one jumped out when changing water,I put him back and then later in the evening hit his head against the top/roof badly. When we were taking everything out and siffoning bottom as I described erlier he jumped out again. This time I felt that enough is enough and let him die. The last one is very sick and if he gets to unbearable stage will have to let him die. I searched on the internet till my head was spinnig to find out what could it be. But still I don´t know. I´m sure it is my fault I´m a beginner and u will probably tell me that I overlooked something basic. My rest of the fish 10 harlequins, 8 punteus titteya and 2 botias marac. seems OK eventhough 3 days ago I saw exagerated flashing in botia and 1 or 2 harleq. Yesterday and today they seemd ok and are eating. Thank u all.

 

[lucc]

Tank capacity?

100 l - 80cm long. about 30 cm wide. about 40 cm high . My idea was to get fish for beginners, but I live on small island and when I got to the pet shop almost all their tanks were empty. My original idea - buy fish for beginners had vanished. When I asked about silver dolars specific requirement I was told that they like plants to hide behind. I did get plants.

 

[lucc]

have you tested the tank?

I do use product for stable ph and envoriment and the many times I´ve changed the water after I noticed first symptomes I think it should remedy any problems with water?

 

[drobbyb]

The first thing to do when you see your fish aren't doing well is to test for the primaries first: Ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate and pH. This should be performed any time that something seems off as many times, a simple presence of ammonia or nitrite can cause the very symptoms that you have listed including gasping for air and then death.

Medicines can be funny, some of them can decimate your bacterial population and reduce the water's ability to hold oxygen. This can be VERY bad and can exacerbate an existing ammonia/nitrite problem.

 

[lucc]

The first thing to do when you see your fish aren't doing well is to test for the primaries first: Ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate and pH. This should be performed any time that something seems off as many times, a simple presence of ammonia or nitrite can cause the very symptoms that you have listed including gasping for air and then death.

Medicines can be funny, some of them can decimate your bacterial population and reduce the water's ability to hold oxygen. This can be VERY bad and can exacerbate an existing ammonia/nitrite problem.

Thank you very much for your reply. It seems obvious now that this was the problem!!! Looks like I comitted very basic error. Unfortunatelly I thought that by changing 45% of water would b ok and than I changed 45% in next 3 days and 30% 2 days later but also put the medicine in and than 40% in the morning and 40% in the evening 2 days later. It´s too late now - I have to make sure that the rest of the fish will b ok and keep changing water maybe on everyday basis?

 

[pirate monkey]

Hi Lucc,

sorry to hear about your problems, we've all had our own share of issues at some point!

As drobby said, testing for those particular parameters is very important, and can really help you understand what is going on with the water in your tank. When you test regularly you will know if you need to be changing the water more frequently.

There are some good resources here to read up on about the nitrogen cycle, and what levels should be in your tank. If you're not already familiar with this, check them out.

I am sorry to say, however, that your tank is too small to keep silver dollars in They grow very large, up to 7 inches, and they are extremely skittish and fast, so need a huge amount of space. I kept some in my 350l tank, which is 4ft long, and they would slam into the side of the tank when they got spooked I gave them away in the end as they just weren't suitable. It's great to see that you took care of their requirements with the plants and lettuce, but longer term you would have had to give them up.

I understand the day you went to get your fish they didn't have what you wanted, but the best thing to do is research before you buy easier said than done! If you go to the shop again and see fish that you might like but weren't planning to get the best thing is to come back on here and find out if they are suitable for your tank.

I don't mean to jump on you, just some advice I hope this helps, and hope the rest of your fish are doing well

all the best

 

[lucc]

Hi Lucc,

sorry to hear about your problems, we've all had our own share of issues at some point!

As drobby said, testing for those particular parameters is very important, and can really help you understand what is going on with the water in your tank. When you test regularly you will know if you need to be changing the water more frequently.

There are some good resources here to read up on about the nitrogen cycle, and what levels should be in your tank. If you're not already familiar with this, check them out.

I am sorry to say, however, that your tank is too small to keep silver dollars in They grow very large, up to 7 inches, and they are extremely skittish and fast, so need a huge amount of space. I kept some in my 350l tank, which is 4ft long, and they would slam into the side of the tank when they got spooked I gave them away in the end as they just weren't suitable. It's great to see that you took care of their requirements with the plants and lettuce, but longer term you would have had to give them up.

I understand the day you went to get your fish they didn't have what you wanted, but the best thing to do is research before you buy easier said than done! If you go to the shop again and see fish that you might like but weren't planning to get the best thing is to come back on here and find out if they are suitable for your tank.

I don't mean to jump on you, just some advice I hope this helps, and hope the rest of your fish are doing well

all the best

Hi pirate monkey, thanks very much for your support and helpful information I shoud have had joined long time ago!
Looks like my last silver dolar will make it, today he had part of a tablet and a flake! and seems much better. Rest of the fish seems ok so far. I have the extra oxygen on (in normal situation I couldn´t have it - silvers vere chasing each other all the time and separated the tank by 3 parts and chased eachother if one strayed in. At night something like that used to happen all the time. They had their places each - where they went to sleep every night the same place - and didn´t like the other comming. However with the extra oxygen - u´ve seen exagerated version of it and during the day too! I think they were all male (all had a red a.fin).
Regarding the giving away thing... I was saying that several weeks ago - that we will have to have them adopted by a person with a big tank 210 cm and longer (that there is no other way). I haven´t changed water yesterday and I´m thinking to change some more today - just to make sure? I don´t have the test kit yet. I have to say the price is very exagerated here (eventhough I know it is very important).
I will buy it when I go to my country on holliday (soon). Do you have any experience with botias macracanthas? - I know it is potentialy very big fish. Are they gonna be ok in my 100 l tank? (I have 2 of them - 4 months now - and yes I know that u should have 5 of them minimaly but my other fish are all similar colouring and they often all swimm together and so far seem happy) also silver dollars shoud be in bigger number I know.... .

Thank u again Lucc

 

[pirate monkey]

Glad to hear they're doing well now!

I think if you are in doubt, frequent water changes would be the best thing. Can you take a water sample to your lfs to get tested? Then you will know what your water is like. If there is ammonia and nitrites present you will need to do 50% changes daily until they disappear!

If you are doing large changes just make sure the temperature is matched as closely as possible, it's not so much of a problem with smaller changes. As your tank is a modest size, with a large water change a difference in temperature can cause problems!

I think re homing your last dollar would be the best thing, but they really need a very long tank, it might be best to take it back to the shop in the end

as for botias, I have never kept them so can't really answer that! Perhaps you could ask in the relevant section to get help from those who would know?

Good luck

 

[lucc]

Glad to hear they're doing well now!

I think if you are in doubt, frequent water changes would be the best thing. Can you take a water sample to your lfs to get tested? Then you will know what your water is like. If there is ammonia and nitrites present you will need to do 50% changes daily until they disappear!

If you are doing large changes just make sure the temperature is matched as closely as possible, it's not so much of a problem with smaller changes. As your tank is a modest size, with a large water change a difference in temperature can cause problems!

I think re homing your last dollar would be the best thing, but they really need a very long tank, it might be best to take it back to the shop in the end

as for botias, I have never kept them so can't really answer that! Perhaps you could ask in the relevant section to get help from those who would know?

Good luck

 

[lucc]

Glad to hear they're doing well now!

I think if you are in doubt, frequent water changes would be the best thing. Can you take a water sample to your lfs to get tested? Then you will know what your water is like. If there is ammonia and nitrites present you will need to do 50% changes daily until they disappear!

If you are doing large changes just make sure the temperature is matched as closely as possible, it's not so much of a problem with smaller changes. As your tank is a modest size, with a large water change a difference in temperature can cause problems!

I think re homing your last dollar would be the best thing, but they really need a very long tank, it might be best to take it back to the shop in the end

as for botias, I have never kept them so can't really answer that! Perhaps you could ask in the relevant section to get help from those who would know?

Good luck

Hi pirate monkey, thank you again for your advice. Yesterday I've done about 70% change (haven't seen your new advice at that point). The temperature difference is about 3-3,5C when I change the water(since I've risen the temperature in last week from 26,5C to 29,5C). Silver is eating now his favourite botias etc. tablet, swimms much better almost the same like before, doesn't have his usual big apetite back yet, but I see twiches in his body still from time to time and fast mouth movement from time to time (he was doing that mouth thing before but I'm not sure if he is doing this since beggining (since when we got him). Definately the twiches is only since the crises - never before.
I'm sorry to say that the punteus titteya r acting strange - I don't thing that they are eating and 5 of 8 were on the surface (gaspping for the air I assume)yesterday and today after the water change too. Now it's better but something is wrong... and on top of it one of them is with head down and I think he has got his spine bent slightly towards the end of his body. Could it be that deseas - I have to check it out on the internet. I have them also 10 1/2 months all 8 of them and none of them died. So it is also sad to see. I don't know if they can test water for you I will definately ask... I have bought this product (in a pouch) to reduce amonia, nitrate, nitrite to put in the filtr. I will do it later in the evening after switching light off. Also I bought vitamins which I will also put in after light is off.
Thank you so much again. All the best. lucc