Sick Platy..

[kuter]

I will try to recount the events here without making a total novel:
On Oct 4th my daughter decided to get a few fish. We were in Petsmart and of course no one advised here that she was doing anything wrong. She purchased 1 beta, 2 comet gold fish, 2 redwag platys, and 1 chinese algae eater. For containment she purchased 1 bowl for the betta, a 1 gal acrylic set up for the goldies which had a lighted hood, air stone and UGF, and a 2.5 gal tank with airstone and pump. No heaters, no filter systems, etc.
Well Son in Law pitched a fit about all this. Swears that the pumps running all the time will cause their child to go tone deaf! On the following Tuesday I go get the fish..Hence my education begins...
I start reading and trying to understand. I do get a whisper filter and heater for the lil platys/algae eater tank. I get an attack of something, algae eater dies. Then one of the platys die. I treat for ich. It appears to be going ok so i put the carbon back in the filter. Another attack and this time it looks like flukes and I treat accordingly. Yea!!
I am still running in stupid mode so I add another platy and a pineapple swordtail. I have however figured out that these guys need much more room. I now have two 10 gal tanks with penguin bio-wheel filters, pumps with airstones, water test kit. The stupid mode is still going full force though and I add 1 shubunkin and 2 fancy fan tails to the gold fish tank.....
1 of the comets gets sick, clamped fins but still eats. I watch the ammonia but of course I am having a high old time keeping it anywhere near reasonable. Comet dies within 24 hours. I learn about salt and add it according to the directions on the box. Then the goldie tank turns to total murk and I panic! I clean out the whole tank and start over! ( did I mention the term Stupid Mode yet?) I also add a white lyre tail molly to the tropical tank. I am a slow learner!!
I finally find this forum and Badmans Tropical Fish site! How wonderful all you people are!
Now to where I am today. I know the term "cycle" and what it means. I am currently doing a 20% water change in each of the tanks to keep the ammonia levels down as much as possible. The goldie tank is doing better than one could really expect for a few days.
Meanwhile back in the tropical tank, the last platy I purchased clamps her fins and gets lethargic. She does still eat. I set up the lil 2.5 gal tank for her and treat her for fluke and ich and fungus, although I can find no traces of any of these. After 48 hours I put her back in the 10gal tank. She is still the same. No better, No worse. 2 days later I put her back in the little tank and she is currently being treated for bacterial infection. She is still the same. I am so lost as to what to do now! She is such a little fighter! I know she is sick and I dont have a clue now as to what to do for her!
2 days ago the other comet clamped his fins. I placed him in the other lil stupid tank and treated him for a bacterial infection but I lost him sometime during the night.
All the other fish appear to be doing well at this time. Neither of the comets that I lost nor the sick platy have had any outward signs of injury or parasites.
Now for the water conditions. I have well water but I still treat all water with stress-coat. My water straight from the tap reads as follows:
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Hardness 120
Alkalinity 80
Ph 7.0
I put all water I intend to use for water change in clean plastic gallon jugs the day before. The weather here is unseasonably warm so that the heater on the tropical tank isnt even coming on. In fact I ended up turning on my AC because the water temp was approaching 80 degrees!
I appologize for the length of this post. I am struggling to learn how to be a good "fish mom" and I felt that by giving as much background as possible that it would help some of you answer the questions..
Kuter & Krew

 

[Mamaschild]

Wow. Not used to getting that much information right from the start. Great job I would much rather read a novel and have all the info, then not. And I'm very impressed with the amount you have learned already

Anyway, you said you know what Cycling is, now. Have you cycled your tanks? It normally takes a few weeks. I didn't notice a reading for Ammonia. Did you test your tap for that? Yes, it can be there, you would be suprised All your tap reaadings are great, otherwise. No need to do anything but make sure you don't have any Chlorine or Chloramines. That can kill off your fish pretty quick. With well water, I'm not sure how you would find out, though.....is it a municipal well, or a personal one?

The most important thing you can tell us now, is what are the readings of your tanks? If you are showing ammonia or NitrItes in there still, that could very well be what is killing off your fish. Ammonia is dangerous, even in small amounts, and NitrIte is not much better.

The easiest way to cool off tanks is turn off the lights and let a fan blow over the open top. More water will definately evaporate, but you won't boil your fishies. But, 80 degrees is nothing. I keep 2 of my tanks set at 80. If it gets above say....86 or so, then ya' need to worry. Well, except for the Goldfish. They are cold water and shouldn't get above around 75 I think??? I don't have any, so I'm trying to use my brain

I hope that helps a little. Add that info, and I'm sure we can help you even more.

 

[kuter]

Thank you MamasChild. The ammonia reading straight from the tap is 0. This is a personal well with no chemicals added. I do have a basic filter on my well system as this well can produce a lot of sediment.
No my tanks are not cycled! I am trying to do that with the fish in it and not loose anymore. Quite a challenge! Nitrite and Nitrate are still at 0 at this point and I am doing a 20% daily water change to keep the ammonia level below .25. That seems to be the best I can do at this time. How frustrating!
I am really quite angry about this whole thing! Petsmart has gotten on the good side of the dog/cat owners by not selling puppies or kittens and supporting the humane society and ASPCA but this whole mess with the fish has really gotten me to boiling! Now I do realize that fish arent the brightest stars in the sky, you cant take them out and play with them, train them to do tricks, etc. But they are still a living creature and deserve to be treated with some degree of humanity! Any establishment that sells them should make some effort to educate prospective owners about them and what it really takes to provide a healthy environment! GRRRRRRRR!!

 

[Mamaschild]

Ok, now is when you need to be very careful about what you do. You don't want to kill your fish by letting the ammonia get too high, but you don't want to remove all the ammonia, or you will stop your cycle. Dilemas......

You have a couple of options. What you are doing is fine, just don't OVER do it. Or, you can purchase chemicals to help bind the ammonia, but I honestly don't know how they work. Or, you can purchase something like Cycle, or Bio-Spira. These will add beneficial bacteria to your tank and get the cycle going for you.

How long have the tanks your fish are now in been running. Sorry, but I am having a hard time telling from your original post ) I know you switched them around, so?

I could not agree with you more on the LFS situation. I stood and listened to an employee telling a customer that the Plecos did not need heat. Granted, I'm in San Diego, but I lost 3 before I learned they are WARM WATER FISH. I tried to tell him twice that this was not the case, and even stated my mistake. He didn't care and actually argued with me in front of the customer I finally just shook my head and walked away. But, they get paid for their "work", if you could call it that.....

Oh, and you can train fish to do tricks......a number of people have them jumping for food. Mine eat out of my hand and nibble my son's fingers. They are not as dumb as most people would think. Can you tell I Love My Fishies

 

[kuter]

As of today, my fish have been in 10 gal tanks for about a week. Actually more than a week but I started them both over from scratch about a week ago. The mistake I made with the goldies was to purchase a UGF which turned into a total mess is just a few days! The tropicals had to be started over after my grandson broke 2 glass floating thermometer in the tank! This glass was very thin and just flat out shattered! I knew of no way to make sure I had gotten all the glass out other than to totally wash all the gravel, etc. I did take the opportunity to move the tank to higher ground. I was also having a hard time keeping water in it sitting where it was as Zues, my male rottie decided it was a convenient water bowl.

At this time I am doing 20% water change daily, making sure I dont disturb the gravel as that seems to be where the good stuff in suppose to be growing. I am no longer adding salt to either of the tanks. The original reason for the salt was that I had read it would boost the immune system of salt tolerant fish. If the fish start to look puny I may go back to adding the salt. I am managing to keep the ammonia at less than .25 and the nitrites at 0. However last night after the water change, I noticed a slight amount of nitrates. I am hoping this is a good sign. What is the max ammonia ppm I should allow?

The other thing I did not tell you is that the filters are actually bigger than I need. Both are Penquin Bio-wheel filters but the goldie tank filter is rated at 30 gal and the tropical filter is rated up to 20 gal.

Now back to that little 2.5 gal tank I have. I am going to put rock, decorations, etc in that tank and start a fishless cycle in it. The goal here is to put the rock and decor into the larger tanks as soon as the cycle is complete there. I do have some clear ammonia on hand already. I have a Whisper filter that is mechanical and chemical but not bio. I have a submersible heater for that tank and a 5 gal pump with air stones. Do you know the ideal temperature for a fishless cycle?

I had asked in another post about using silk plants from craft stores as decor. I discussed this with an experienced fish keeper from a different chat room I go to. He said it would be ok if the plants were washed good but that the silk seems to be a great place for algae to grow. I need more info before doing this. I do know that everything must be inspected closely for any metal!

I have put the puny platy back into the tank with the other platy and swordtail. She swims about a bit. Eats well but continues to be unsocial. Just a wait and see situation.


Thanks again for all the help.

 

[suemack]

hi kuter - with my first tank I struck the same problems as you have (got the fish and tank the same day - was told they'd be fine.....they weren't) - after killing some lovely guppies got some more and still had problems till I discovered the cycle info and started testing. Had never heard of fishless cycing (or any sort of cycling) so my fish suffered.

Ended up adding some ammo-lock (this gave me false readings but the fish didn't die), daily w/changes trying not to disturb too much of the gravel (this meant that the tank took longer to cycle but made the water less toxic for the fish) and added cycle to boost the bacteria present in the tank. Like your platie the guppies were getting clamped fins and looking miserable. When the nitrite levels went up in the tank I started putting small amounts (1/3 tsp) of salt into the water I was changing to help the fish deal with the nitrite. Don't know if this was the right way to use the ammo-lock but the fish perked up fairly quickly and with the daily w/changes things improved daily

this is definately not the ideal introduction to fishkeeping - but do hang in there - I did and still have my tank (and 3 more) and get a lot of joy out of my hobby - sue

 

[kuter]

Well Puny Platy has been back in the tank with the others for about 3 days now. Her fins are still clamped but she is getting a little more social and her appetite remains to be good.
I am doing a 20% water change daily to try to keep the ammonia levels down. I am of course monitoring the nitrite, nitrate, Ph, etc on a daily basis. I am trying to avoid the ammo-lock as it does cause false ammonia readings but if the fish get to looking too stressed, then I will try that. At this point most are doing ok.
I do have one fancy fan-tail gold fish that is listing a bit ( swimming to one side like one side is heavier than the other) but he seems to be a bit better than he was this morning. I am of course watching him closely.
I read on one board that the listing could be a sign of swim bladder disease or that it could be a sign of something else altogether. Does anyone have ideas on this?