Sick Fish, Dead Fish

[newfishy]

Ok so we have problems....new to the hobby we got a 10 gallon tank and put platys and guppies inside, after the 8th dead fish I have had it with the fish stores answers to our problems. The first big death was when an ice storm came threw and we had no power for a few days. cold dead fishys, after the power came back it has only been the guppies that have been dieing, the lfs just gave us an exchange when we brought them back dead fish, we even asked what we could do to prevent the deaths and were told nothing...that the drive home from the store was too much for them. Yea right, something was not right. the lfs store certainly didnt say anything about fishless cycling.

too much ammonia...that’s it apparently, we had tried adding chemicals to rid the ammonia but it didn’t seem to be working, today I did two 30% water changes with our tap water (well water no chorine) so a 60% water change today total and the ammonia only came down from 8-6 on the scale...using dropper test kit not strips.

How long and how much should I continue changing out the water...till the tank cycles itself and all levels come out at zero? And any idea of how long it will take?

I am not sure if my fish also may or may not have any ick or parasite problems, they might have a few tiny cotton balls type things on their fins, but they really don’t stop swimming fast enough for me to get a real good look. I have the ick rid stuff and was told by the lfs to add it, even if I am not sure if they have it or not, won’t that stop the cycling?

also one of the platys decided to have ten little baby platys that I now have in a breeder net THEY are doing great but the guppies just kept dieing. Today and yesterday everybody looked fine and was very active and happy, but I am not about to stop worrying about more fatalities. Also I thought guppies were gentle fish…I have one male and the rest are females and the females are mean and pushy to each other and nip everybody over food.

I use aquarium salt and stress coat in the proper amounts along with water conditioner at every water change, and am checking all levels 2 or 3 times daily. So I have no idea what else to do other then to change the water daily till things even out. I also am now feeding them a tiny amount once a day and thinking about going to every other day till the cycling is over will that help?

Any ideas comments suggestions?

 

[Mikaila31]

How many fish are in the tank and what kind?
What are your water stats right now?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

too much ammonia...that’s it apparently, we had tried adding chemicals to rid the ammonia but it didn’t seem to be working, today I did two 30% water changes with our tap water (well water no chorine) so a 60% water change today total and the ammonia only came down from 8-6 on the scale...using dropper test kit not strips.

How long and how much should I continue changing out the water...till the tank cycles itself and all levels come out at zero? And any idea of how long it will take?

How are you cycling the tank exactly? I would not advise using ammonia ridding chemicals since these damage the beneficial bacteria and will only prolong the cycle and thus ammonia problems in the long term, by far the best and least damaging way to remove ammonia is to do it via water changes- try and aim not to take out more than 60% of the tanks water a day though and always make sure you use dechlorinator/water conditioner and only add water of similar temp to the water in the tank etc.
Also how many gallons is the tank and what types of fish do you have and how many?

I am not sure if my fish also may or may not have any ick or parasite problems, they might have a few tiny cotton balls type things on their fins, but they really don’t stop swimming fast enough for me to get a real good look. I have the ick rid stuff and was told by the lfs to add it, even if I am not sure if they have it or not, won’t that stop the cycling?

If the growths are cotton like in appearance then the fish mostly likely have columnaris, whitespot is very uniform in size in appearance, you usually get a smattering of sand-grain size white spots covering the fishes torso and fins and the fish will display behavioral symptoms like flicking/rubbing themselves against objects in the tank and rapid breathing in worse cases etc.

also one of the platys decided to have ten little baby platys that I now have in a breeder net THEY are doing great but the guppies just kept dieing. Today and yesterday everybody looked fine and was very active and happy, but I am not about to stop worrying about more fatalities. Also I thought guppies were gentle fish…I have one male and the rest are females and the females are mean and pushy to each other and nip everybody over food.

I use aquarium salt and stress coat in the proper amounts along with water conditioner at every water change, and am checking all levels 2 or 3 times daily. So I have no idea what else to do other then to change the water daily till things even out. I also am now feeding them a tiny amount once a day and thinking about going to every other day till the cycling is over will that help?

Any ideas comments suggestions?

Stress Coat is a dechlorinator in itself if used in right amounts, the salt will help de-toxify nitrites but i am not sure if it does the same to ammonia, what type of salt are you using as well (since there are numerous types of salt)?

Apart from the water changes, it is also important to make sure the tank is well oxygenated/airated, so raising the filter so the jet creates water movement and bubbles across the surface or buying a bubble pump for the tank will help the fish and make their condition more bearable .

 

[newfishy]

10 gallon tank
4 adult platys
now 10 -1/4 inch baby platys
one male guppy
6 female guppys

the guppys are the ones that keep dieing and I am starting to think about takeing them back to the store as I aparently cant keep them healthy.

I have the filter set up so it creates a lot of bubbles, the box of salt says aquarium ocean salt...does not seem to be a major brand, this morning water stats are

amonnia-2.0mg/l...the kit said 8.0 mg/l yesterday before the massive water changes and I dont know why all fish arnt dead esp the fry.
ph-nuetral-6.8
nitrite-0/0 mg/l
nitrate-20mg/l
alkalinity 120 mg/l
hardness 300mb/l
chlorine/chloramine 0 mg/l
dont have a salt kit, but I add only the bare bare min of salt- scant 1/2 teaspoon per gallon
tempt is 76



"whitespot is very uniform in size in appearance, you usually get a smattering of sand-grain size white spots covering the fishes torso and fins and the fish will display behavioral symptoms like flicking/rubbing themselves against objects in the tank and rapid breathing in worse cases etc."

this sounds much more like their problem tiny tiny sand grain looking but it does not appear to bother the fish at all, does not apprear on every fish and you have to look pretty hard to see it.

as much as i now know about tank cycleing.....testing water and doing water changes till all parameters come out at 0?
these are my first fish in my adult life....so I pretty much dont have a clue. I am not using any more chemicals at all on the tank...if something looks funny I just do a water change. last week before coming here and reading up on things my sister proclaimed the fish had dieases from the pet shop and heavly dosed the fish with anti parasite and antifungel and antibacterial chemicals...which I am now sure killed any benifical bacteria. so is it still possiable to do a proper cycle with this whole mess? and how would i do so???

my husband is very frustrated with the whole fish mess and we now have quite a lot of money invested in chemicals and such that both my sister and the lfs said we desperetly needed. To the point where buying more chemicals is out of the fish budget. Is it safe to say I want to try and return some of such chemicals because they only seem to be making things worse?


oh and nobodly was floating or sinking this morning and all acting very very active so I am very pleased.

 

[newfishy]

ok an update

did a 40% water change and it only lowered the amonnia from 2.0mg/l to 1.0mg/l, should it be dropping more then that?

the one red platy has what looks like small cuts near his gills....so now I am wondering if I dont have a parasite problem but a bitchy fish problem as when I looked very closely there are some tears in a few other fishys fins....so it is bitting/nipping, a parasite, just stress or something else?

I will update after tonight water change with color pictures of everybody so you can maybe diagnose.

I am starting to think I have too many fish in too small a tank-I know it will be too many when the platys get bigger but I cant give/sell them till I am sure they will survive the travel. in particular too many guppys.....the six females keep chasing the one male around and he is not so spunky any more.

as a side note I am still mad the 30 and 20 gallon set with the nice stand broke when my parents moved, it would have been really nice to use those tanks as right now I have no hospital or fry tank.

thanks for your help.

 

[Mikaila31]

I suggest you take the guppies back, your tank is very overstocked. It is also cycling, this is why you are getting such larger amounts of ammonia. I suggest you read this thread and see if you can get a hold of some mature filter media. When cycling with fish you want to try to keep ammonia less than 1 and nitrite less than .5. As far as chemicals go most are worthless, but there are some that every fishkeeper should have on hand. What chemicals do you have?

 

[newfishy]

ammo lock- I think I should return as it hadent helped
aquium salt
quick cure
start right-local brand of water conditioner
a trial size of aqua safe
and one antibacterial and one anti fungel that my sister brought over...no clue the brand

I already know the baby platys are gonna go as soon as they are a tiny bit bigger, also I am just sick of the guppys being so hard to keep alive and I think they are harrising the other fish.

would it be safe to say

keep the adult platys
perhaps keep the one male guppy- the only fish I am sort of in a stupid way atached to
return every female guppy
get a baby tank for the fry


big question how many platys can a 10 gallon safely hold?


Ive got 10 babies will they need a 10 gallon till they grow up? I alway thought the limit was was inch of fish per gallon and all my fish are around an inch or so...except for the male guppy...hes like 3/4 of an inch.

also if I get rid of all the guppys when can I safely let the babys out of the net into the tank? they are 1/4 of an inch long right now. the platys never tryed to eat or even bother the babys...the female guppys are still trying to atack them threw the breeding net.

are guppys more sensitive them platys? the baby platys have been eating and playing threw all of this terriable cycling while the guppys had been dieing.

I have read the links and fell like quite the dumbass putting these fish threw this.
unless I can get some from the pet store I have no way of getting any mature media. I also have the feeling that the fish store is not going to want to take the fish back...or they will not return my money....which the sad case is they will refund my money for dead fish...makes no sense to me.


I think I am going to return the guppys tonight, is there anything that I truely do need? other then a larger tank lol.

 

[Faythee]

Regardless of the inch fish per gallon rule you must start a tank out slowly adding fish. I started cycling my 10 gallon with 3 zebra danios (very hardy fish). It did take a couple months for the tank to be cycled. You have too much decaying food and waste in the tank for your beneficial to get established. It's in overload.

Keep your water conditioners and salt.

I would keep only 2 fish in there until the tank is cycled.

 

[Mikaila31]

You can keep all the platies and the male guppy if you want, your 10gal will be completely stock with those fish. You will have to do lots of water changes to keep the ammonia low and you may lose some of the fish. It would really help if you could find some mature media from a friend or LFS. It will save your fish a lot of suffering and save you a lot of work. Also don't buy any products that claim to cycle a tank or contain bacteria, these never work and are really just a waste of money. I would also stop medicating the fish until you know what exactly is wrong with them. The meds and ammonia from the cycle will remove oxygen from the water, you should add 1 TBS of aquarium salt for every 5gal of water this will help the fish. When you do a water change add the salt back to the tank, but only for the amount of water that you removed. So if you do a 25% water change you would add 1/2 TBS of salt back to the tank. I also highly recommended that you buy some prime?, it will make the ammonia less toxic to the fish but it won't harm the cycle. Most pet stores carry it and a bottle will last you a very long time.

 

[Amunet]

Some dechlorinator.. Something that will get rid of the heavy metals in the water.
Petstore guppies usually aren't the hardiest fish b/c well... it's just been bred out of them. Inbreeding and all that.
Not sure if the same is true for platies.. *shrugs*

Anyways... if you can't get rid of all the fish (which would allow you to do a fishless cycle), take back as many as you can.
Also keep up with the daily water changes. Your goal is to keep the ammonia and nitrite readings as low as possible during the cycling process with fish and then just hope it doesn't end up killing your fish.

 

[newfishy]

Was offline for a few days due to computer problems.

I got two small used filters from my sisters tanks and put one inside my filter and droped the other in the tank itself....two wouldnt fit in the filter. I have been doing 30-40% water changes daily, the levels have been as such before I changed the water every night.

dec30
a 1.5
ni 0
na 20
ph 8

dec 31
a 1
ni 0
na 20-40
ph 8

jan 1
a .50-1.0
ni-0
na-20
ph 8.0

after water changes tonight
a .25
ni 0
na 20
ph 7.4

so things are getting better I think, I also added some of a product called cycle...not sure if it was really going to help or not but I was getting sick of fish dieing.

But now I am fairly sure two of the fish have ick or something...I can see small white dots all over their bodies and fins and they look a tiny bit more stressed then the rest of the fish.

can I use the ick medication and not have it ruin all my efforts to get the tank cycled? and do I have to take out all the filters that have little rocks in them..carbon I think? and then what do I do with the filters while the tank is being treated?

I do have a 5 gallon tank that I could set up and throw the extra filters in their while the tank medicates, also will the medication kill the platie fry? and if yes would it be a better idea to put them too in the 5 gallon as well?

other then the two platies that have ick or whitespot or something everybody looks good and healthy and the fry are growing in their little net, their starting to have black at the tips of their fins and the bodies have an orange gold color.

 

[billy0510]

I think your tank is on its way to be cycled, your perameters r looking better. I believe your first mistake was to add to many fish to a uncycled tank. I presently am cycling my 125 Gal with ten zebra danios and ten neons for the last two weeks with no fish lose. Not to worry everyone has had tank problems its a learn as you go process.

As for the ich problem read alot i mean alot of posts about ich make sure u have ich and try one of the many treatments. Personally I use the quick ich cure (walmart) after raising my temp to about 82F for a day. I have also tried A salt method in which you add salt a little daily for 5 days to reach a total dose. But with cylcing your tank you may need to do a WC more often.

In my opinion i will never again use any cycling chemicals or Ammonia Nitrite reducing chemicals again. The least ammount of stuff that goes in your tank the better.

I also believe that to many people out there take fish keeping to the extreme, its not suppose to be that hard. I use the test strips for my perameters i have done both at the same time with equal readings. I may use the liquid if i get a crazy wacky readings.
Good Luck