Should I Just Give Up On Neons?

[GSD]

Neons need a larger tank than a 5 gallon, and also need an established tank, hence the problems.

To be honest i wouldnt put any kind of tetra in a 5 gallon, since they need to be in groups of 5-6 or more and also need alot of swimming space since they swim in shoals.

I would just leave it at the guppies for now, possibly think of getting a betta or something once the guppies are gone since you dont have alot of room.

 

[HYJ]

I hate to say it but I'd put it down to the tank needing to be more mature for these fish. My first tank was a 5.5 gallon in the late 1950's and I have a soft spot for that size and I love neons so I feel for ya! Having somewhat more experience now I tend to agree with one of the earlier comments that these tetras feel more comfortable with a minimum school of 6 or 8, and could use more room. But on the other hand, what the heck are you going to put in a 5 if not neons? They certainly aren't going to grow too much on you! Maybe you could get interested in plants for a while and just have the 2 guppies until the tank has aged for more months. I suppose its also possible your LFS source is just getting bad neons for now, so maybe that would change over time or you could use a different LFS some months from now.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for all the replies. I got 3 more neons for free as replacements few days ago. If these guys die too, I am going to give up on them and leave the tank with the guppies for a while. I might consider adding few rasboras or glowlights

BTW I took some time to take close observation on these neons, and I noticed one strage thing.

It seems like this one neon (or two of them) is nipping the other neons. I have 5 in total.

I can't tell which one is which, but I suspect that this one or two neons are the ones that has/have been in the tank for few weeks now. They were the survivors when I had problem with the dying neons.

So ya.. this guy/these guys are nipping at the other neons.. and I've noticed that this kind of behavior gets worse right after I feed the fishes.

Why are they doing such things? They wouldn't bother the guppies btw.

For others who replied to my post.. I understand that the bigger tank is better.. but I am a student living in a very small room, so I didn't have enough space for a large aquarium. In fact, my aquarium is not a glass tank because I didn't think I have anything to withstand a heavy weight tank.

2 years ago when I was living in a different country, I have successfully kept 9 neons in a 5 gallon tank.. and I didn't have any problems. I think I introduced them after the tank had been set up for a month or so.

I am not considering to get a betta, because 1) I just don't like these betta fishes 2) I am afraid the betta would hurt the guppies

 

[Davo86]

Neons are a sensitive species and need stability, a 5G tank is not going to be anywhere near stable enough for them to live anywhere near as long as they should be,
Not too mention as said you are overstocked, and regardless of the fact you can only accommodate a small tank, the fish should still be properly cared for,
and by keeping neons in an unsuitable setup, you are doing quite the opposite.

Even neons will act territorial in a small setup

 

[waterdrop]

You are asking the question "Why are they doing this nipping behavior?"

I didn't understand this at first even though people had mentioned the answer and the words were sitting there grinning at me. Its the business of the "minimum shoal" that people keep mentioning. Its very common in tetras especially. In their natural habitat these neons live in shoals of millions of fish and move in huge swirls that look like a shining snake of glittering scales (each individual neon) at times. By the time you get them down to a handful of fish, their natural instincts tell them they've been separated from the shoal and "they are going to die unless they find their way back" (I'm projecting human thoughts there but you get the idea.) There's just little way around it, the genetics of these fish, shoaling fish, makes them stressed more and more the closer they get to being a lone fish. The "minimum shoal size" is people's opinions about just how small a group you can get down to and still have them enough not stressed that they will live ok.

Another angle I like to imagine it from (and I don't know if this is true, its just my take on it) is that with these shoaling behavior fish, they will see the food and survival possibilities as "OK" as long as they are out in enough space with enough same-species companions. At some point as their numbers and space contract they switch their behavior to "survival mode" and see their same-species companions as competition for what they expect to be not enough food. Thus if they can kill their companion, they may survive.

On the other topic, that of the neons sensitivity and need for stable water chems, the way I see to reconcile your previous experience of them living in your small tank and what davo is saying (which I agree with) is that "lack of stability" is just that, its random. If the environment is not quite right then sometimes with some fish it will work, sometimes it won't. You've now experienced it both ways.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[HYJ]

You are asking the question "Why are they doing this nipping behavior?"

I didn't understand this at first even though people had mentioned the answer and the words were sitting there grinning at me. Its the business of the "minimum shoal" that people keep mentioning. Its very common in tetras especially. In their natural habitat these neons live in shoals of millions of fish and move in huge swirls that look like a shining snake of glittering scales (each individual neon) at times. By the time you get them down to a handful of fish, their natural instincts tell them they've been separated from the shoal and "they are going to die unless they find their way back" (I'm projecting human thoughts there but you get the idea.) There's just little way around it, the genetics of these fish, shoaling fish, makes them stressed more and more the closer they get to being a lone fish. The "minimum shoal size" is people's opinions about just how small a group you can get down to and still have them enough not stressed that they will live ok.

Another angle I like to imagine it from (and I don't know if this is true, its just my take on it) is that with these shoaling behavior fish, they will see the food and survival possibilities as "OK" as long as they are out in enough space with enough same-species companions. At some point as their numbers and space contract they switch their behavior to "survival mode" and see their same-species companions as competition for what they expect to be not enough food. Thus if they can kill their companion, they may survive.

On the other topic, that of the neons sensitivity and need for stable water chems, the way I see to reconcile your previous experience of them living in your small tank and what davo is saying (which I agree with) is that "lack of stability" is just that, its random. If the environment is not quite right then sometimes with some fish it will work, sometimes it won't. You've now experienced it both ways.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the reply. I guess I am not having so much luck with"stability" this time. I forgot to mention one thing though.

I bought a water conditioner called "Prime" by Seachem, that is supposed to remove chlorine, chlomaine, and ammonia at the same time it "detoxifies" nitrite and nitrate so the fishes wouldn't get harmed while bacterias can still live in the tank.

I was wondering..if this product is supposed to "detoxify" nitrite and nitrate, would adding this every the other day help keeping the water quality to safe level?

It seems like 1ml treats 5 gallon, and I have 250ml bottle, so I wouldn't have much problems in terms of dosage.

I asked the same question to the company and they told me that theoretically it should work..if I can keep up with the regular dosage.

Thanks