Should I Be Worried?

[loraxchick]

Hi,
I have two male betas DIVIDED in a 6 gal UNFILTERED tank...we do have MANY live plants in there- anacharis, milfoil, java moss and wisteria sp....and when i say many, the plants are AMAZING...we do Co2 injection with yeast/sugar from a soda bottle thru airstone...most of the plants dont even pearl- just very tiny STEADY STREAM OF O2 bubbles...increadable!!!... some snails hitched a ride on the plants...small, unsure of sp. but keep things UNBELIEVABLY tidy! the levels are cycling right now...NH4~ 1 steadily, NO2~ 1 and rising, NH3 0 thus far..waiting to see the crash in NH4/NH2...both betas doing VERy well...hungy and active but NOT building bubble nests....They used to be very actively building bubble nests when i had them in a much smaller setup...about .75 us gal vases! they were horrible and i bought a tank fo them to share divided..they did get into a fight after an overlooked opening which has since been remedied, was present in their current set up... this was over a month ago and i separated them and treated with salt and melafix and they are back into their divided tank and are doing great! FINS GROWING BACK VERY NICELY AND NIEHTER ONE had any sort of infection from their fight...and as i said the productivity of the plants since intro to CO2 injection has been stellar...but they dont build their bubble bests any more?... is this normal...ive rad a LOT on here that this makes the fish happy, or is at least an indication of happiness to Betas... i am fairly new to the beta world but have realized that they are unlike other fish in that they REALLY form a bond with their owners...are they stressed in their divided tank? they do flare at each other throughout hte day but they also have lots to look at and DO inspect their place for most of the day...the LOVE the snails and i catch them throughout the day checking out the bubbles that the plants produce...i am soooooo attached to the betas, more than my other fish that i have in with a small turtle- 2 cory's, 2 ottos and a loach....although cory's are fun to watch...always up tp something... ANYWAY, are my betas stressed by either ammonia levels (~1)or the presence of the other beta?...They are flaring less and less on a daily basis...very noticeable as i watch them all the time because the tank is BEAUTIFUL with how well the plants are doing.... or is there enough stimulation with other things that the betas are watching, and arent building nests?
thanks,
Rebecca

 

[CraigBaines]

sorry for being a ***** but could you please paragraph that, i carnt even be arsed to read my way trought it

 

[ibbledibble]

let me get this right, your post is very confusing and difficult to read.

your ammonia is 1.0 and your nitrite is 1.0 and rising? is that what you are saying?

how often do you do water changes?

are you trying to cycle your (unfiltered) tank?

also, what temperature is the tank water? do you have a heater?

how often did you do water changes when they were in their vases?

 

[TheRedDiscus]

Maybe this will help you out Bettas are tough fish, they are generally alot more hardy then other tropical fish, if what you are saying is your tank is a 6g one then you got to get a simple filtering mechinism of some kind. Ammonia being one won't neccsecarily kill your fish instantiounesly but 1PPM is VERY bad. I suggest making a 80% water change right now, 50% water change the next day and shrink the precent by 5 as everyday goes on. Once you reach 20% water change daily, return to normal 1 week or if possible, half week water change of 15-20%. This should rid your tank of anything bad like ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, but just try not to over feed and let the tank get dirty by fish waste because this will cause the ammonia and other harmful chemicals in your water to rise. I hope this helps!

 

[loraxchick]

Sorry about the "confusion" of the last post...i know it was rather wordy but i wanted to give a picture of the tank...it is very well planted...the plants ARE my filter...the tank has been set up for over a month and ammonia levels have never been above 1...the water is tested EVERYDAYi do spot cleaning EVERYDAY with a turkey baster...have only had to do two 50% water changes as the plants are very productive and keep the ammonia levels down, generally between .25-.50...when it gets aorun 1 i do a 50%... And i do have a heater...temp is around 80F.
i am not concerned about the health of the tank...everything is fine with the levels...it is almost done cycling...just waiting for nitrates to show up which will be any time now...
my question was this:
My betas used to make bubble nests when they were in seperate "tanks" (and the ammonia was much higher with no plants, less water, etc, so i did LOTS of water changes at that time to keep ammonia <1)... in their old sepearate tanks they were placed next to each other and did flare in the old set-up...more so than they do now in fact (they are now together in a divided tank)...
what i am wondering is do they not build their nests anymore because there is a lot of other "stimulation" for them in their new tank? They are always looking at something- the snails, the plants, the O2 bubbling from the plants...other than that, they are acting,swimming, eating as they always did...just not making large bubble nests like they used to in their old very small and boring vases that i recieved them in.
i guess what im trying to ask is do betas ALWAYS make bubble nests? ive never owned betas before and they are very much fun! just want to make sure they are happy (which they seem to be- but this is a change in behavior over the last month or so and just want to know if it's normal as now they dont seem to make nests as they used to...and the only difference as far as environmental factors go is that there is a lot going on in their new tank which keeps them (pre?)occupied.
thanks
(and i may be a noob beta owner but have kept MANY aquariums over the years-so any negative "why are you cycling your tank with fish/no filter in there comments are unnecessary- i know what im doing in that regard)...betas are just very different than any fish ive ever kept as they have distinct personalities and bond with their owners-truely unique!
just wondering if NOT building bubble nests is normal.

 

[shadowtheblacklab]

There should not be ANY ammonia in you tanks. Your boys are probly stressed by it and the bubbles

 

[TheRedDiscus]

Sorry but plants will never be as effective as a mechanical filter! plus, plants only give out oxygen and suck in CO2, but a mech filter (EVEN A SMALL ONE) can filter out dangerous chemicals and stuff like that.

 

[maximinimus]

Sorry but plants will never be as effective as a mechanical filter! plus, plants only give out oxygen and suck in CO2, but a mech filter (EVEN A SMALL ONE) can filter out dangerous chemicals and stuff like that.

Tosh!

Biological (ceramic rings, bioballs, biowheels, sponges etc) for ammonia and nitrite

Chemical (activated carbon, polyfilter etc) for heavy metals and other organic compounds.

Mechanical(coarse sponges, filter wool etc) will remove debris from the water.

Plants do much more than "give out oxygen and suck in CO2", they absorb ammonia, nitrite and nitrates and use them as fertiliser. Plants will also absorb heavy metals and other pollutants.

If the tank is unfiltered you will be looking at a minimum of a 50% water change, every day with no exceptions.

Just because bettas are hardy fish does not mean that you can get away with higher levels of ammonia.
Hydrochloric acid wont kill you if you took a swim in a weak enough solution, but you would still end up with chemical burns.

 

[ibbledibble]

(and i may be a noob beta owner but have kept MANY aquariums over the years-so any negative "why are you cycling your tank with fish/no filter in there comments are unnecessary- i know what im doing in that regard)...betas are just very different than any fish ive ever kept as they have distinct personalities and bond with their owners-truely unique!
just wondering if NOT building bubble nests is normal.

i never asked why you were doing it, was just trying to get a clearer picture of what you were doing/saying. and clearly you do not fully know what you are doing, as you can't properly "cycle" an unfiltered tank.

...everything is fine with the levels...it is almost done cycling...just waiting for nitrates to show up which will be any time now...

plants will feed off nitrates, nitrites and ammonia, but they do not convert it in the way filter bacteria do, and your levels are not fine. it is recommended when doing a fish in cycle, or in a tank without a filter, to do a water change whenever levels of ammonia or nitrite reach 0.25 you state that your levels are quite a bit higher than this. having lots to keep them occupied is not likely to stop a betta (and it is betta, not beta) from building bubblenests, in fact bettas with a well planted, interesting tank will usually be more prone to bubblenesting as they are happier and have a better environment.
i think that this is probably what you are trying to do, but its clearly not working totally yet as you should have no ammonia or nitrite or nitrate if it is working fully.

 

[loraxchick]

"plants only give out oxygen and suck in CO2"
This is not true! They do more than that...do some research...look into filterless planted tanks...you'll get lots of hits and some amazing photos of how it is possible...and ive done it before, just not with betas as im a noob BETA keeper...kept lots of aquariums ...the fish help the plants with their waste and the plants help keep things balanced..lots more to it, really...but that's not my question... Im not looking to get into some sort of "filter war" here...just wondering about bubble nesting...while doing my research into beta care it only says that they build them, but not with what frequency...that is the only feedback im looking for...people on here have been VERY helpful and considerate before with questions ive had, but now it seems like everyone's on the offensive...im not going to defend my methods, just looking for some info if possible. Ill post photos soon so y'all can see im not torturing the little guys...they enjoy exploring around! and i keep the gravel VERY clean. The plants are doing the rest

 

[loraxchick]

"plants only give out oxygen and suck in CO2"
This is not true! They do more than that...do some research...look into filterless planted tanks...you'll get lots of hits and some amazing photos of how it is possible...and ive done it before, just not with betas as im a noob BETA keeper...kept lots of aquariums ...the fish help the plants with their waste and the plants help keep things balanced..lots more to it, really...but that's not my question... Im not looking to get into some sort of "filter war" here...just wondering about bubble nesting...while doing my research into beta care it only says that they build them, but not with what frequency...that is the only feedback im looking for...people on here have been VERY helpful and considerate before with questions ive had, but now it seems like everyone's on the offensive...im not going to defend my methods, just looking for some info if possible. Ill post photos soon so y'all can see im not torturing the little guys...they enjoy exploring around! and i keep the gravel VERY clean. The plants are doing the rest

just tested...no more ammonia, no2 down, no3 up...cycling WIthout A FILTER ...I do gave gravel in there (which i seeded from a mature tank)..
still wondering about the nests

 

[AnakBettaMoon]

....that is the only feedback im looking for... just looking for some info if possible...still wondering about the nests

I love this forum im reading on this forum everyday, but that tends to be one issue i have the most. people {ive noticed the regulars do this most often} tend to stick to one little part of the information your trying to give them so you can get an informed answer to the question you are asking, and never get around to answering your question, but you get a lot of criticism.

But regarding your question.... sorry my betta is in a cycled tank for about 2 months now and his nests are frequent but not as frequent as when i had him in an unfiltered vase with one plant and a snail, while my tank was cycling. Ive asked the same question that you are and i never received an answer from a 'veteran' betta owner. so ill be sticking to this post to see if it gets answered!! Good luck!

 

[loraxchick]

annak...
your reply was all i need...i already figured id get a run-around and no specific answer...they are happy and fine but i was just wondering.
and thanks for being FRANK!

 

[AnakBettaMoon]

and thanks for being FRANK!

heh thats me just call me Anne..hehe anne frank.. yeah i know ive a weird sence of humor. But im still pulling for you to get an answer because i really want to know this answer my self!

unless of course were all putting in too much thought on these bubble nests, maybe its just when there horny and certain amounts of ammonia in the water, that certain peak or number, esp when two are in one tank i.e. male female mating time, it might trigger something in them that makes them build.

like a peacock, they only use there feathers for mating apparently but ive seen males all spread out and pretty when no females are in the area.. its just a certain smell that reminds them, or triggers something, in their brain that its mating time.

heh i could put together a human male analogy too but.. nah...

 

[loraxchick]

and thanks for being FRANK!

heh thats me just call me Anne..hehe anne frank.. yeah i know ive a weird sence of humor. But im still pulling for you to get an answer because i really want to know this answer my self!

unless of course were all putting in too much thought on these bubble nests, maybe its just when there horny and certain amounts of ammonia in the water, that certain peak or number, esp when two are in one tank i.e. male female mating time, it might trigger something in them that makes them build.

like a peacock, they only use there feathers for mating apparently but ive seen males all spread out and pretty when no females are in the area.. its just a certain smell that reminds them, or triggers something, in their brain that its mating time.

heh i could put together a human male analogy too but.. nah...

it sounds like you're a biologist...i have a bio degree and i thought THE SAME THING!!! either they are bored and building for fun (or practice), or horny, ot in their "life cycle" ( like circadian rhythm), they are doing it...i have seen them build them in their new tank, BUT NOT LIKE IN THEIR .75 us Gal vases!!!....but, i have another theory ( im developing my own since no one has an answer), is that when you go from and UNFILTERED tank, like a vase, inot a filtered one (mine is being filtered with plants, as i said in previos posts), there is aggitation to the water...your's being aggitated by a filter current (however small you may think it is, not like a stagnant vase) and mine i being aggitated by the sheer number of large and very very tiny bubbles of O2 that my plants are producing...come to think of it, my betas dont gulp since the plants took off...EVER...maybe bubble nests are a product of gulping??...whatever the reason (maybe ill design an experiment), im sure both your and my betas are happy...just some thoughts about it since no one else can give me an answer without sounding accusitory.