Sexing Bolivians

[NathanPrince]

Hello guys, I recently bought what was sold to me as a "pair" of bolivian rams from my LFS, question is I cant tell the difference between them really, only minimal differences but none to definitely indicate the sex of them

Heres a couple of (poor) photos I've quickly taken (they're inquisitive little guys and dont stay still long enough!) to see if you could help me establish the sexes of my rams.

What I believe to be the male:

(Cheeky bronze cory sticking his face in the picture )

And what I think is a female? :

They do stick very closely together all the time, there's the occasional chasing but nothing aggressive I dont think so this led me to think what I was told could be true after all?

Thanks

 

[NathanPrince]

Anyone able to tell these apart?

 

[TheRedDarren]

I reckon they could be a pair but the other way around, my male has extended outer rays on his caudal fin and extended, more flowing dorsal finage, where the females have their caudal fins finishing square as it were and not as flambouyant dosals. HTH.

It may just be a trick of the photo but the fish in the last image appears to have a concave tail. Other than that I can't distinguish any dimorphism between them

How old are they? the younger they are the harder it is to tell.

 

[NathanPrince]

They are around 2 inches in length, not sure on age as I bought them from an LFS like a week ago, your right about the tails, the bottom one does have a slight concaving to the tail with very slightly extended rays.

The first pictured Ram has a very flat, straight tail with no extension or concaving.

What are the signs of breeding behaviour? They were very very close just yesterday, swimming around together tightly and keeping the cories away from their territory and had a little scuffle with a stray Apisto Cac. but today the bottom pictured Ram is chasing the other away a lot and theres an awful lot of flaring and fluctuation in colour, as I sit here typing this their bellies are glowing yellow, the black rays on their dorsal fins have turnt a pale blue and there's not so much chasing now

Sorry for all the questions I just like knowing as much as possible about the fish I keep

Thanks

 

[TheRedDarren]

Don't worry about the questions! That's why the forum is here! Keep them coming.

I think they're just settling in mate, possibly still quite young so feed them well and study the behaviour over the next few weeks, their behaviour will tell you what sex they are too. Bickering with the other cichlids will continue, possibly indefinitely, its just part of their behaviour, don't worry, they won't fight to the death, just push each other about to establish the pecking order.

I'll try and get some photo's of mine for you. What size did you resize too? How many pixels?

 

[TheRedDarren]

This is my male, you can see his caudal and dorsal flow a lot more than the females, which simply don't. HTH.

 

[NathanPrince]

What do you feed yours? At the moment im feeding tetra colour flakes?, sinking pellets that I had for the plecos but they love them for some reason , bloodworm, and they occasionally munch on the cory's algae wafers.

Really inquisitive little fellas though, explore EVERYTHING and always trying to keep up with the Harlequin shoal

The Apistos have conquered the coconut cave and I think that's what the arguing is over, I need more shelters but the Rams dont like the coconut, I have a little Cove thats naturally in the wood and some stone caves they occasionally hide under, would that be alright for them? Also what do I look out for behaviour wise, im always finding myself watching the tank so it would be nice to know what to look out for.

I dunno what size the photos are, I just uploaded them to photobucket and it resized them automatically

-edit- So im looking out for the back of the dorsal and the tips of the caudal fin extending mainly then as they grow?

 

[TheRedDarren]

Yea, sorry not the best pic, I'll post you another when I've got a bit more time.
I feed Tetra Prima and Nutrafim max flake also hikari wafers for my cories that the rams get stuck into too, also live feed once a week (daphnia or enriched brine shrimp), maybe more if I'm feeling it and frozen bloodworm probably about twice a week. Just started fasting one day a week which appears to benefit the tank.

Yea just watch them regularly, you'll soon figure out their personalities, they flare their gill covers and shimmy about each other a lot!

They are open substrate spawners so may not show too much interest in a cave as such, mine had their first spawn last week on some bogwood, but soon ate the eggs which is common for the first few spawns until they learn what they're doing. I was lucky, I bought 4 and ended up with three females! So should be a happy male in there! although saying that they are supposed to be monogamous but we'll see!

 

[NathanPrince]

More or less what im feeding at the moment then, good to know!

At the moment there's just a lot of showing off, dorsal fin flaring at everything in the tank that moves I only got the 2 Rams, my "group" as such are the Cacatuoides, have 6 soon so hoping these 2 Rams do pair off properly and start laying eggs.

I guess thats why they are always out in the open then, need some more plant life for them to swim about in, mine seem to always be sifting through them chasing each other.

Good that you said about them eating the eggs, I'd of panicked otherwise if I'd of seen it happening , here's hoping we both get some fry soon

Thanks for your help

 

[TheRedDarren]

Yea, I'm sure we will!

Pleasure.

 

[NathanPrince]

Hmm beginning to think I have 2 males afterall, lots of butting, chasing and lip locking going on and 2 very seperate terratories now.

Think a trip to the LFS is in order to take one back and exchange for a female or 2

 

[TheRedDarren]

Well, my male and female who paired up and had their 1st brood started off with me thinking they were two males because they had two territories, be patient and see what happens, plenty of good food and water and you'll soon see, have you noticed and dimorphism with the fins yet?

 

[NathanPrince]

I hope so, just seemed a bit too aggressive for male and female. I can only see a very very slight extension to the tail fin on one and his pectoral fins look a little more "pointy" than the others, he's also really bright and colourful whereas the other looks a little washed out and dull

Ill just wait and see what happens I guess!

 

[TheRedDarren]

Where are you? If you end up with two males I could swap a female?

 

[NathanPrince]

Im only in Bristol mate, that would be awesome if you could! Ill give it a few more weeks and see what happens between them, but at the minute its just constant fighting