Setting Up A Riparium

[eschaton]

Hey all,

Though my planning for this is quite a good deal away, I've been thinking about setting up riparium, (a hybrid terrarium/aquarium). I'm wondering what semi-aquatic/land animals could do well in such a hybrid habitat. Vertebrates or invertebrates welcome as an idea.

My only concerns are as follows:

1. I don't want to feed live food.
2. I don't want a surface-dweller who will eat all the land plants.

I'm thinking about a mix as follows.

Aquatic:
Mini Rasboras
Male Betta
Dwarf African Frog(s)
Mystery Snail(s)
Assorted Small snails and shrimp

Terrestrial
African Giant Millipede (apparently only eats decaying plant matter)
Small land Snail (though live plants might be an issue)
???

I'd ideally like to get a small terrestrial vertebrate in there. Any ideas as to this or further thoughts?

 

[lozronz]

I'm gonna be no help at all I'm afraid, I wouldn't have the first clue, I used to keep Australian tree frogs but I have no Idea whether they would work with a fish section.

I would love to see a picture of your setup once its done though it sounds reallly interesting.

 

[dizzied]

I keep thinking dart frogs would fit here, but I'm not sure. I've seen some terrarium setups with large water areas and dart frogs.

 

[lozronz]

I'm sure on channel 5 at stupid'o'clock in the morning I saw a program about giant millipedes being able to kill fish although I might be wrong.

And would dart frogs not secreate their poison if paddling... although apparently most loose their poison in captivity? I don't know, there is the potential for disaster I would do some serious googling before you decide!

Good luck though!

 

[dizzied]

Poison dart frogs do lose their poisonious properties in captivity. I believe that their poison isn't actually natural, that they just get it from their environment, perhaps something in their diet?

Some other frogs or amphibians could work, some would eat fish though. If you could hide a bowl of saltwater somewhere, land hermit crabs might be a possibility.

 

[eschaton]

from everything I've read giant millipedes exclusively feed on vegetation. I'm not even sure there are any carnivorous millipede species. Maybe you're confusing them with centipedes?

As for frogs, again I don't want feed live insects, both because I'm squeamish about live food and because, considering crickets can drown in a reptile water dish, that most of them would stumble into the water and drown. There's a species of frog in Brazil, on the other hand, which eats fruit, but AFAIK it's not available in the pet trade. It's too bad as it would be ideal.

Thinking about it, a very small lizard or tree frog might work though without having to feed at all. Giant millipedes like to eat rotting fruit and vegetables, so their tank almost always has a population of fruit flies. If I left a large enough pile of fruit and veggies the flies might be self sustaining and a little insectivore could have a field day.

A hermit crab (or another land crab) would be an ideal inclusion if it wasn't for two issues. One is that most land species drown if they fall into water, which would mean I'd need to have an extremely shallow slope to the shore or they would fall in and die. The other is I'd have to be extra careful none of the land or water snails were larger or the hermit crab would kill them for their shells. I'm thinking I could use hermits though if I put them on an "island" on the opposite side of the tank.

 

[dizzied]

You can always get a fruit fly culture. You just shake it down into the tank like salt and pepper.

I actually assumed that the tank was going to slope. Although you could try having things like rocks or driftwood create a path out of the water. Hermits are great climbers (at least on land), I doubt they'd drown themselves too easily.

As for the millipede, doesn't it release a toxic gas when it's threathened?

 

[eschaton]

You can always get a fruit fly culture. You just shake it down into the tank like salt and pepper.

I actually assumed that the tank was going to slope. Although you could try having things like rocks or driftwood create a path out of the water. Hermits are great climbers (at least on land), I doubt they'd drown themselves too easily.

As for the millipede, doesn't it release a toxic gas when it's threathened?

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the tank having a sustained fruit fly population with a mini lizard or tree frog the more I think about it.

I'm actually thinking more about a double slope now, with islands on either side. Say a hermit crab isle and a milipede isle, with the frog jumping around between them. Each side would have a shallow, sandy shore so they could get a drink when need be, but a series of small "posts" made to look like pier wood to stop the critters from stumbling too deep into the water.

From what I can understand the milipede secretion isn't harmful to humans and I need to research more to find out if it would be harmful/fatal to anything else in a tank. Milipedes of different species apparently mix just fine,so I don't think other herbivores/detrivores would be an issue. I've also found people online who mix milipedes and snails and say that there isn't an issue aside from (a common community tank issue) they will likely eat each others eggs.

The big issue with my dream plan is someone from the snail forum mentioned that chances are the land snail will crawl up the tank side, and might decide to randomly detach over the water, drowning itself.

 

[CAC]

Why not have something thats not poisonous, can go in water, and go on land, and has the name: Newt!?!?!?
Would be perfect, as long as you get a smallish species, and get big enough tankmates that wont get eaten. Mind you, they dont spend too much timeout of water, so if you got 3 or 4 (if the tanks big enough) and then get some decent sized bottom dwelling fish, as the water would be quite shallow, surrpose that top dwellers would be ok too???

Mikey

 

[chishnfips]

do mud skippers fall into your category?

 

[dizzied]

I was actually thinking the newt at first, but not sure about compatability. I think they're more terrestrial as babies and become more aquatic as adults, so you might have something that would use the whole tank over it's lifetime.

As for mudskippers, they're brackish.

 

[eschaton]

The only big issue is all newt species, and most salamander species, are coldwater. They actually do quite poorly in tanks which are heated, and often need refrigeration during the winter months of the year if kept at room temperature. Including them as an option is possible, but it means leaving out about 2/3rds of the species I'd otherwise consider.

 

[Saedcantas]

I dont see how this can possibly work if you are unwilling to use livefoods which means your terrestrial animal must be a herbivore... but then it's not allowed to eat the land plants either???

I'll give you a run down,
Giant millipedes - Contrary to popular belief these guys will eat all and any vegetation, rotting or not. They also secrete a foul smelling liquid when they feel threatened (i.e: everytime you go near them) which will pollute the water if not sit on the surface and suffocate everyone else.

Giant african land snails - Will not drown themselves, if they fall into the water or go for a walk in it for a while they will be fine and eventually just crawl back out. They will however eat all and any vegetation in the area and they will also leave slime and strings of crap absolutely everywhere, which I doubt will turn out to be all that good for the other inhabitants.

Dendrobates (dart frogs) - Obtain their toxins from their natural diet and are harmless in captivity. Many of the small species can be fed exclusively on fruit flies and hatchling crickets. If you are squeamish about the livefoods, fruit flies are not going to be a better option for you as you will no doubt end up with lots of them in your house

Small lizard or tree frog - All of these that would be otherwise suitable will require livefoods bigger than fruit flies.

Hermit crabs - Are clumsy and ungainly in their movement, they would rapidly find themselves drowning in the water...

Newts or salamanders - The newts available in general are coldwater and would be unhappy with your heated water, salamanders are in general much larger growing and will have your fish for tea in about 5 minutes flat.

Mudskippers - as someone has already pointed out are brackish.


You have not mentioned anything about the size of this proposed paludarium?

Basically I think your best bet is to go for a very small terrestrial frog species such as golden mantellas which can be fed entirely on very small livefoods such as the fruit flies and hatchling crix, when using crickets you could easily place them in a deepish vertically sided dish to prevent them roaming the whole viv.

 

[moray]

Saedcantas, I couldn't have said it better myself, except that aso millipedes aren't known for their brains and there would be a large chance of the drowning too.

unfortunately I can't think of anything that has all your requirements - it might be time to rethink

 

[grahamsokel]

You cant keep the likes of dart frogs in an area that has deep water they will end up drowning