Sera Test Kit For Fishless Cycling?

[toffeenose_uk]

Hi all just joined the forum....Hopefully I will enjoy being on it, as I will enjoy having my first fish tank....Today I finally found a bottle of household ammonia at my local hardware store, sold by a company called Home Hardware. I called them and they sent me an MSDS data sheet for the product, it confirmed what I hoped that it has no phospates or surfacts in it. Happy that I have now got a bottle of pure ammonia (9.5% v/v soulution), I was ready to start cycling until I noticed the Sera Test Kit for Ammonia.

I have read that I need 5ppm ammonia in my tank to start the cyclt, which for my 64L tank works out at about 3ml. However, Im not happy with the test kit, or maybe Im using it wrong. My tank ph measures at 7, and then you use that 7 number along with the NH4 which is 0 which gives you from the table an NH3 content of 0.003mg/l

What im not happy with is that the table only goes up to a maxiumum 3.6mg/L NH3 and this is got with using the max levels measurable with this sera system, ie a ph of 9 and a NH4 of 10....now i thought a ph of around 7.5 was ideal for fishless cycling, and at this level I can only read a max NH3 of 0.17, IF I got an NH4 of 10. How can i measiure that the ammonia content is 5ppm or mg/L if the sera system only goes up to 3.6 and this is only got if I get a very high pH of 9, which probably is no use for cycling

My question is has anyone ever succesfully used Sera to measure 5ppm,(5mg/L, same thing), and if so how....Am i doing something wrong....Or can someone tell me that this system, is no use for cycling and maybe I should use X, Y, or Z test kit...

ANy help much appreciated, as Im very much a newbie, although I have read a bunch of stuff. You know what they say,I know enough to be dangerous

 

[KittyKat]

I have never had the test kit, but according to Sera's website, the test kit will measure total ammonia (NH[sub]3[/sub] and NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup] combined into one reading), which is same as all other test kits will do. In practice, you are unlikely to ever need to calculate the NH[sub]3[/sub] on its own (which is what the conversion table with the pH does). In other words, we do not measure NH[sub]3[/sub] or NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup] on their own, we are only ever interested in them combined. Also, the test kits are not reliable enough for the table to be of much use to see if the ammonia is harming the fish in case of problems after you add the fish.

Normally, I recommend 3-5 ppm ammonia down to 0 ppm ammonia in 12 hours for almost full stock, depending on which reading the test kit will give. So if your test kit has a colour match for 4 ppm, use 4 ppm; if it has a 5 ppm colour swatch, use 5 ppm. Basically, I find it more important to know how much you're dosing than to dose exactly 5 ppm (which you wouldn't know without a positive reading).

Basically, use the test kit, ignore the table.

Would you be willing to try an experiment with dosing for me? It seems to reduce likelihood of stalls during the cycle. Basically, dose 1 ppm ammonia, wait until ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm, then dose 2 ppm ammonia, wait until ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm, dose 3 ppm ammonia, and wait until ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm, dose your final ammonia concentration (3-5 ppm), wait until ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm, continue dosing final ammonia concentration at every double 0s (maximum of once per 24 hours) until you are getting double 0s at 12 hours, then do qualifying week, large water change and you're done.

 

[toffeenose_uk]

Thanks for the help Kat, I think I now understand, certainly it makes sense in my head now anyway, I have just added 0.5ml ammonia which has brought my total ammonia up to 1ppm.... Sorry, but I would rather get it up to 5ppm as I have read that this is the way to do it, and I have my heart set on this method....I would like to try the staging up process you talked about, but for days I have 5ppm number in my head, so broke or bust, im goinng for that......I am intrigued in the method you suggested though, as I have read diffrent bits n pieces about peoples cycling "stalling"....Il be kicking myself if that happens to me, then il wish I had staged it up

To recap, i now have 1ppm in, and aiming to get it to 5ppm....sadly the test kit jumps on the colurs from 1ppm to 5ppm, so its kinda difficult to guage accuratley, il be airing on the less than 5 side as I dont want to go over this... Dont know why they cant have 1,2,3,4,5,ppm etc....

I will let you know how I get on, thanks again for your help

 

[KittyKat]

Thanks for the help Kat, I think I now understand, certainly it makes sense in my head now anyway, I have just added 0.5ml ammonia which has brought my total ammonia up to 1ppm.... Sorry, but I would rather get it up to 5ppm as I have read that this is the way to do it, and I have my heart set on this method....I would like to try the staging up process you talked about, but for days I have 5ppm number in my head, so broke or bust, im goinng for that......I am intrigued in the method you suggested though, as I have read diffrent bits n pieces about peoples cycling "stalling"....Il be kicking myself if that happens to me, then il wish I had staged it up

Except for the likelihood of stalls, there is another problem with dosing high ammonia at the start… The problem is that 1 ppm of ammonia produces 2.7 ppm on nitrite. Most nitrite kits measure only up to 5 ppm nitrite. So, if one doses 5 ppm ammonia, the nitrite will rise to 13.5 ppm (well, not quite, but lets simplify it for the sake of the demonstration). So on 0 ppm ammonia, you redose to 5 ppm. Within a couple of days, you probably have 20-25 ppm nitrite, redose again and maybe you have 30-35 ppm nitrite. Eventually your ammonia is being processed to 0 ppm in 12 hours, but your nitrite is still off the scale (probably in the 50+ ppm region, which can give false 0 ppm readings on some test kits) even though it probably is already processing 13.5 ppm nitrite to nitrate in 12 hours. Basically, you end up not knowing what is going on with the nitrite for the whole cycle, right until the end: you can't tell if it's stalled, can't tell if it's already overtaken the ammonia.

Anyway, be careful to not go over 5 ppm because doing so at the start can cause the wrong bacteria to grow, so remember for calculating to take into account that some water is displaced by the filter, heater, substrate and that you do not fill the tank with water right to the rim.

 

[toffeenose_uk]

I think things are going ok...I did take into accout the displacement, i think I needed about 2.5ml to get 5ppm, but iv added only 2ml and think im getting a rerading of just below 5ppm for the ammonia..... I wish they could give you colours for 2,3,4ppm and not just 1ppm then 5ppm....makes it tricky to judge.

Anyway, Im confident I have the correct ammount of ammonia in, the airstone is bubbling away, the temperature is 26oC and the pH is 7 and the tank is being kept in total darkness. I also am adding 1.5ml of Interprets filter start every 2 days, which is some kind of bacteria start....I take it I should continue this for 7 full doses like it say?? Does conditions sound ok for my tank to cycle? Startting cycling tank, 00.01 today, 28th Sept

Im a wee bit concerned about my plants...they have got dark brown bits appearing on them and some slight alage deposits....Should I start using plant food, or should I start intriducing co2 to the system, would either of these prevent my tank from cycling? The plants dont look bad, just not as green and pretty as they were when they first were planted in the tank (day i set up tank) on 17th Sept.

Fingers crossed everything cycles ok

 

[KittyKat]

I think things are going ok...I did take into accout the displacement, i think I needed about 2.5ml to get 5ppm, but iv added only 2ml and think im getting a rerading of just below 5ppm for the ammonia..... I wish they could give you colours for 2,3,4ppm and not just 1ppm then 5ppm....makes it tricky to judge.

Try a different test kit next time: the API one, for example, has 0, 0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, 4 and 8 ppm swatches.

Anyway, Im confident I have the correct ammount of ammonia in, the airstone is bubbling away, the temperature is 26oC and the pH is 7 and the tank is being kept in total darkness. I also am adding 1.5ml of Interprets filter start every 2 days, which is some kind of bacteria start....I take it I should continue this for 7 full doses like it say?? Does conditions sound ok for my tank to cycle? Startting cycling tank, 00.01 today, 28th Sept

Try raising the temperature to 29 C for the cycle, that will be quicker, and watch the pH like a hawk: if it drops at any point, you'll know that your KH is low and you should buffer up the water with bicarbonate of soda.

Im a wee bit concerned about my plants...they have got dark brown bits appearing on them and some slight alage deposits....Should I start using plant food, or should I start intriducing co2 to the system, would either of these prevent my tank from cycling? The plants dont look bad, just not as green and pretty as they were when they first were planted in the tank (day i set up tank) on 17th Sept.

Ammonia + light => algae. I would personally remove the plants to a warm windowsill (in some jars), until the cycle is done. Which species have you got? Might shed some light on your problem.