Seismic activity

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In recent days, the headlines have been full of the triple earthquake cluster in Turkiye and Syria. The media largely ignored another cluster around Indonesia in the last fortnight, the latest being this morning. There has been increased seismic and volcanic activity across many parts of Europe, South & North America in recent months too.

This planet that we are meer tenants of, is becoming more and more unstable and it has nothing to do with humans or the weather.

Tectonic plate movement has increased significantly in the last 2-3 decades, causing far stronger earthquakes, harsher volcanic eruptions and those have all become more frequent. The dangers of tsumani has also increased since the Boxing Day 2004 tragedy...including the Fukushima in 2011.

There was a fascinating documentary last night, shown purely co-incidently after the events of the last few days, regarding earthquake and volcanic events being on the increase and how certain cities around the world are well overdue for one or both.

Two cities in particular are "food for thought".

Naples and New York.

Naples has Versuvius on its doorstep, anyone doubting the ability to destroy places only need look at Pompeii to see exactly what Versuvius is capable of. The volcano is very much alive and seismic events have been increasing on a worrying level in recent years. Added to Versuvius being awake, you also have Etna and Stromboli that erupt daily and Gran Cratere della Fossa which releases poisonous gasses requiring the island of Vulcano to be evacuated. All four volcanoes are connected by the same faults and all four have increased magma pressures. Also under constant monitoring are the semi-extinct volcanoes underneath Naples... the 24 craters of Campi Flegrei, Marsili, Roccamonfina have all shown signs of waking up in the last decade or two. Should the expected chain reaction occur and Versuvius erupts severely and triggers earthquakes and further eruptions from the rest of the volcanoes in the region plus tsumami, the picture is a very very dark one indeed for the survival rate.

New York is overdue a large earthquake. The last "big one" was around 130 years ago, they tend to happen every 125 years or so. Manhattan has upwards of 5 to 7 fault lines, the other boroughs that make up the city also have scattered faults. Relatively small earthquakes hit the city once every two or three months, not many people living and working there notice them. Two most recent 5+ magnitude happened in 2001....roughly a month either side of the 9/11 tragedy. The latter caused great upset and panic as people did feel it, the epicenter was under Central Park and with nerves being frayed, it was felt and there was some collateral damage. It may, or may not, be a surprise to learn that a seismic building code was not in place until 1995. There is also an extreme level of liquefaction probability...especially around Battery Park, the UN building and, indeed, the new Trade Center. This is due to the lack of bedrock, the use of backfill & reclaiming of land when constructing buildings. The high water table added to the use of friction piling also adds significant risk of building collapse in the event of an earthquake over magnitude of 6.5. As with Naples, the survivability for those living and working in New York when the "big one" happens is very, very low. Should a large earthquake occur in New York, it would bring absolute chaos and devastation...and tsumami reaction from that is extremely high, so not only would the city and its boroughs be severaly affected by a large earthquake but the high chance of a tsunami following it would compound the damage and loss of life.

So as much as there are people screaming about the climate being out of kilter and potentially deadly in consequence........the earth beneath our feet has far more chance of causing trouble, especially in our big gleaming cities where complacency is rife (as New York proves when it decided not to have seismic building codes until 28 years ago despite experiencing ever strengthening earthquakes)

If you compare the toll from the Indonesia, Syria and Turkiye clusters to what will eventually happen in Naples and New York......the climate tends to drop down the list of priorities.
 
Politics, I guess, but there is nothing we can do to manage seismic activity. Climate can be addressed, so it goes up the list of priorities.
But can climate be addressed when you have daily volcanic eruptions and Tectonic plate movements that by virtue of what they are will release a significant level of noxious gasses and heat into the atmosphere?

Is it not conceivable that the efforts that humans make to be "green" are being negated by the planet's own natural processes of movement that cannot be stopped, controlled or harnessed?
 
You've veered into pretty standard ideological talking points there, and it becomes one of those interminable arguments about politics once the ideologies come out. If we engage, then we are using a fish forum to try to influence people politically. I love the idea of a good debate, and just like you, I'm sure I'll "win", whatever that amounts to. I don't really want to draw out the issues that divide us here, and I'll ask the mods to keep an eye on the thread. Debates flowing from ideology just make us lose respect for each other and squabble.
 
You've veered into pretty standard ideological talking points there, and it becomes one of those interminable arguments about politics once the ideologies come out. If we engage, then we are using a fish forum to try to influence people politically. I love the idea of a good debate, and just like you, I'm sure I'll "win", whatever that amounts to. I don't really want to draw out the issues that divide us here, and I'll ask the mods to keep an eye on the thread. Debates flowing from ideology just make us lose respect for each other and squabble.
Why involve the moderators exactly?

Debate...even lively debate...is free speech and unless that debate dips into name calling, foul language or derogatory statements & threats...it should be permissable tween adult minds.

We are ALL grown ups here, it is not kindergarten.

Maybe the moderators have thoughts of their own to share on the subject of the planet doing its own form of damage and thus does not wholly depend on humans to do it instead.

The subject is NOT divisive and it is NOT offensive, nor is it political....cos as far as I am aware Tectonic plates and volcanoes are not politically affiliated......the planet is far more capable of hitting the self distruct button all on its own, it does not require human assistance, political or otherwise.
 
I believe it's all connected...
we're extracting oil from the soil causing a shift in tectonic plates causing earthquakes all in the name of money...
releasing that oil into the air as co2 and causing a greenhouse effect
so when it comes to a discussion of what is priority? not humans for sure...
greed will kill us all simply because we don't better ourselves unless there's monetary value to be had
if money wasn't an issue we would've built space ships entirely made of graphene already...but progress isn't a priority
then comes energy...as of now, there's no energy storage capable of storing GREAT amounts of energy in a small space...
on the day that we as a race come up with a way of storing energy to power entire countries for years in something as small as a computer box
we would have solved all of our energy storage issues right there
our progress in the last 100 years has destroyed this planet more than our ancestors did in the last 10 thousand
we have lights to illuminate our homes...computers to go online on fish forums...and plumbing in our houses so we don't have to take a dump outside in the freezing cold
but ever since the computer there hasn't been any great invention...
we had power, cars, planes, radio, phones, tv, nuclear fission, rockets, computers
and ever since the computer age around 94/95 when it became mainstream for the common folk.....nothing
they keep talking about nuclear fusion and every year there's a "breakthrough" that means it's only "50 years away"...
we have means of creating graphene materials which is much stronger than steel and still limit ourselves by money...
we have the means to create artificial diamonds but still limit ourselves by money
IF we as a race develop 3 things....
--------------
1. sustainable nuclear fusion without outside fuels
2. compact energy storage allowing us to store energy to run a country like the US for 100 years in something as small a computer box
3. a way for interstellar travel...be it in breaking physics and travelling faster than light or in warp bubbles bending space/time around it
--------------
our ways as a race, desires and greed, means we will be one of the most destructive forces in the universe
simply because we want more...
so human priorities? Money. nothing else...
 
I've seen you argue here for fracking, @wasmewasntit , and so when I see an old argument that regularly appears in ideological talking points coming through, it's political. There are legions of keyboard warriors being fed those lines for distribution across the internet, and it's clutter. In my mind, I immediately take the bait and want to answer you, but it's a fish forum. If we come here to debate politics, it says we should be more creative and find political discussion boards.

What's your view on human influenced climate change, both industrial and through forestry and mining, and the extinction of western African fish fauna known to have evolved with narrow temperature tolerances? Outside of the potential of Mount Cameroon, the plate tectonics of the region are stable, and what's happening there is human driven. When we look at the region, the massive wealth being extracted isn't trickling down, but in the sparsely populated regions, the climate issues are serious. What say you?
 
I would agree with @GaryE.
Climate change and self-destruction of the world is a divisive topics. There are too many different views and this is not the place to discuss them.
 
I've seen you argue here for fracking, @wasmewasntit , and so when I see an old argument that regularly appears in ideological talking points coming through, it's political. There are legions of keyboard warriors being fed those lines for distribution across the internet, and it's clutter. In my mind, I immediately take the bait and want to answer you, but it's a fish forum. If we come here to debate politics, it says we should be more creative and find political discussion boards.

What's your view on human influenced climate change, both industrial and through forestry and mining, and the extinction of western African fish fauna known to have evolved with narrow temperature tolerances? Outside of the potential of Mount Cameroon, the plate tectonics of the region are stable, and what's happening there is human driven. When we look at the region, the massive wealth being extracted isn't trickling down, but in the sparsely populated regions, the climate issues are serious. What say you?
I do know that the 99.99999999% of this forum (or discussion board as they used to be called is about fish.

Which is why I posted this debate regarding the PLANET and its various moving parts such as fault lines, volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunami etc in the OFF topic area

The PLANET has ZERO political affiliation
The PLANET moves and changes of its own volition...humans (political or not) cannot change what the PLANET is doing to ITSELF

The only person making a political argument is yourself Gary.

I certainly did not bring political argument into this at all.....this discussion in off topic is about the fact that the planet itself is slowly destructing itself by way of the increase in seismic activity and that my friend has zilch to do with political divides.

Humans have no imput on when the planetary plates move (apart from the silly idea in California where humans filled a fault line with concrete then wondered why it pinged rather hard in response)

We humans can be as green as the grass...but ultimately this planet will be wiped out by its OWN actions...NOT humankind of any political affiliation cos the planet couldn't give a rats behind who you vote for, when the earthquakes and volcanoes go bang there will be no preferential treatment according to your political slantings.

So perhaps you and those who do not have the gist yet.........climate is the least of our worries cos the planet we reside upon has the ultimate control of life or death....as has been proved with over 17500 deaths in the last few days in Turkiye, Syria and Indonesia......the earth moved on its own, it wasn't humans or the climate that caused it to move...it did it all by itself and that movement is increasing worldwide.

Nothing political....just good old natural forces at work.
 
I am not disagreeing with any of the arguments advanced for Naples or New York. However, the intensity of tectonic activity going on in the New York area is considered much less that that around Turkey, Syria, and Greece, and also less that that on Naples.
Now if the reference was to the Yellowstone area, parts of the Caribbean, California, or anywhere on the Pacific Rim of Fire….
 
As someone who lives just over the hill from the Yellowstone Caldera, I find the topic of plate tectonics rather fascinating. :lol: I'm not really sure how much there is to say about it, though. It just happens. If Yellowstone ever blows, I'll wave at the rest of you as I sail overhead.

Obligatory mod warning: Keep it friendly and non-political. I know that's almost impossible with climate change because the social and political implications are so big. It needs to be discussed, calmly and rationally. But this probably isn't the place for that. If it goes that way, we'll probably have to shut it down. Thanks.
 
I have a question.
Could international rescue response teams mobilise quicker?
First response to natural disasters are inherently time critical. Having contingency plans, ready access to equipment and use of military transport, should it not be possible to have these teams at a site within a few hours?
It seems that it takes 1,2 even 3 days and I don't understand why.
 
I have a question.
Could international rescue response teams mobilise quicker?
First response to natural disasters are inherently time critical. Having contingency plans, ready access to equipment and use of military transport, should it not be possible to have these teams at a site within a few hours?
It seems that it takes 1,2 even 3 days and I don't understand why.
It's a good question. I think that in peaceful, stable areas this would be possible and is largely the case already. If it's a matter of getting aid and equipment from France to Spain, say, I think it would happen in hours rather than days.

In areas of conflict, unrest, social-political tension, or isolation, it's a lot harder. For example, I could see where Syria wouldn't be crazy about having US Air Force military transports flying into their country. I doubt Turkey would be completely OK with the Russians (or even the Greeks) doing so. Countries generally don't want their traditional enemies' militaries poking around when they're already weakened, and some countries have a lot of traditional enemies. Also, a lot of the heavy equipment needed for natural disaster recovery is difficult or impossible to air-lift, so it's hard to get into isolated areas quickly.
 
Plate tectonics is not political - saying global warming doesn't matter is inherently political (at least in the U.S.). It's pretty strictly divded down party lines.

The earth is not going to destroy itself - even with massive earthquakes. Think of how many earthquakes must have occurred when Pangea spread. Massive loss of life in some cities doesn't equate to an uninhabitable planet - global warming could.

It's an interesting topic, though.
 

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