Seem to be losing all my molly fish :(

[mollydesperation]

One possible cause of all this would be either chronic or acute poisoning, possibly from bad tapwater. You also mentioned a spray near the tank? Bad tapwater is less common these days but it does still happen, especially after they’ve been digging up the pipes. It happened to me a few years ago. Even though I’m confident the PolyFilter removed whatever toxin it was, the damage was done, and all fish went downhill but took a few months to die.

There has been quite a lot of road works near my place lately and i know a main road was recently fully dug up not to long ago. Not sure if that might have a chance of causing any issues?

 

[GaryE]

Melafix is a remedy (not a medication) I mistrust. The active ingredient is a proven antibacterial, but in the product, the concentrations are so low I doubt it can do much. It's almost as bad as a homeopathic remedy, and you can't convince fish to believe in placebos.

It kills bacteria at the same concentrations it would also kill fish. I think the severely watered down product smells good, and makes us feel like we're doing something. It harms nothing.

Poisoning is possible, for sure. Maybe a spray in the room - hair, deodorant, air freshener... Road work isn't likely.

For that, water change 50% daily, or even morning and evening for 100% daily, for a couple of weeks, using dechlorinated temperature matched water.

Mollies are very tough, which is why (and I think this is a terrible thing to do) they are used to cycle tanks. In soft water, the neurological things can show in minutes, but can be reversed if you see the problem quickly. But again, your water readings are good.

 

[Essjay]

I would get some PolyFilter and see if there’s any improvement.

PolyFilter is a specific product not plain ordinary filter wool/filter floss. It removes contaminants from the water. It comes in stiff sheets which can be cut to fit the filter. While waiting for it to arrive in the post run some carbon in the filter, or if you already do replace it with new. Carbon removes organic contamination, but PolyFilter does more.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Melafix is a remedy (not a medication) I mistrust. The active ingredient is a proven antibacterial, but in the product, the concentrations are so low I doubt it can do much. It's almost as bad as a homeopathic remedy, and you can't convince fish to believe in placebos.

It kills bacteria at the same concentrations it would also kill fish. I think the severely watered down product smells good, and makes us feel like we're doing something. It harms nothing.

I concur with @GaryE when it comes to Melafix and Pimafix. There's a lot of snake oil sold in this hobby. Tea tree oil isn't going to cure something like a protozoan or parasite, it's a product to sell, rather than a cure aimed at a disease or parasite.


I recommend eSHa for those of us in the UK because their wormers contain the actual ingredients to kill roundworms and flatworms (eSHa NDX and Gdex are their worming meds) while most generic wormers you buy in the store aren't effective, especially against something like camallanus worms, which is what I had. I also found their eSHa 2000 treatment effective.

So for that reason I trust this brand of meds for those of us in the UK, and it's what I would order and try if the fish are still showing symptoms after you've been doing the tank cleaning and large daily water changes, since the two together have a better chance of eliminating the most common things that could be effecting the fish.

So it's not a recommendation exactly, it's just what I would be doing if this were my tank, you know? I'm very concerned for your fish that this has been going on for weeks, nothing has been added, and the way the fish are acting before they pass... I hope it doesn't lead to a tank wipe out, but brace yourself that it could... if it does, please don't give up. We'd be happy to give advice about cleaning and resetting up the tank, and stocking choices if the worst does happen.

TLR: If this were my tank, I'd try to get hold of those eSHa meds locally, but order online if not available locally, plus the carbon and polyfilter mentioned by others.

While waiting for them to arrive, doing the large daily or even twice daily water changes. Will hopefully help dilute any contaminant or reduce the number of parasites/bacteria in the tank, and clean fresh water with low nitrates gives the fishes immune systems a boost, which gives them the best shot of fighting off whatever is causing this.

If any fish are still ailing, dying or getting worse when the meds arrive, I'd try the meds, following the instructions in their directions. eSHa says you can use both meds together, so I would, in the hope that one of them would be able to treat whatever is afflicting your fish.

I'm not sure about mixing the meds with salt though. With most tanks and fish, I'd say to water change the salt out before adding the meds, but since this tank is all mollies and they're okay with salt, I'd wait and see if @Colin_T would recommend changing out the salt before trying other meds.

 

[mollydesperation]

In the process of a 75% water change as we speak. Have got both eSHa 2000 and eSHa Exit on order should be here within 3 days. Will use salt and daily water changes until then.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

In the process of a 75% water change as we speak. Have got both eSHa 2000 and eSHa Exit on order should be here within 3 days. Will use salt and daily water changes until then.

I have all my fingers and toes crossed for you! Some beautiful mollies there, would be a real shame to lose them. Will you keep us updated, please? Invested in this now!

After they've settled a bit from the water change, a longer vid showing all of the fish might still be really helpful. In that first vid, I saw something worrying in all but one of the fish... clamped fins or odd shape and movements, like the small one pecking at the filter seems off too... and someone like Colin, TwoTankAmin , @emeraldking @Byron or Gary have decades and decades of experience between them, and they might well see something that we can't. It's worth a shot for sure!

Wishing you and the fishes all the luck!

ETA: If you use buckets for water changes, make sure no one has used the fish buckets for anything else, like cleaning products. Equipment can get contaminated by things like that too.

 

[Byron]

I tend to stay out of disease related threads due to my very minimal experience with disease in my fish, but as I have been tagged, I do see a couple things that I believe are serious.

First is the lack of a substrate. This is always going to cause bacterial issues because the substrate is the filter bed of an aquarium, and it is virtually impossible to keep it healthy when it is a sheet of glass.. It is deadly for substrate fish like cories, but I see no reason why upper fish cannot be impacted too. A sand or fine gravel substrate is important.

Second, I must disagree on the nitrate. Mollies are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen, be it ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. I learned this some years ago, though I cannot remember from who, but he was one of the livebearer authorities probably in TFH. Nitrate at 20ppm is way too high. If you have no nitrate in the source water, then it occurs solely within the aquarium and that should be easy to resolve. First, a substrate is crucial here. Then not overstocking or overfeeding. Then larger water changes to get the nitrate as low as possible and keep it there from water change to water change. Then get some live plants, and floaters are ideal for this as they are literally "ammonia sinks."

I do agree with those who said GH must be 250ppm or higher, and also agree that at 239ppm it is not so low here as to be directly responsible.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Sorry for tagging you in a disease thread, I know they're not your favourites, but it's because of knowledge like this that you have in your head that it's always tempting to tag you anyway! It's your own fault for being so smart and knowledgeable

I tend to stay out of disease related threads due to my very minimal experience with disease in my fish, but as I have been tagged, I do see a couple things that I believe are serious.

First is the lack of a substrate. This is always going to cause bacterial issues because the substrate is the filter bed of an aquarium, and it is virtually impossible to keep it healthy when it is a sheet of glass.. It is deadly for substrate fish like cories, but I see no reason why upper fish cannot be impacted too. A sand or fine gravel substrate is important.

OP did say they only removed the substrate and plants a few days ago, "because it/they were old", while the fish have been ailing for months. I agree, I don't like bare tanks for many reasons, but also wonder if the substrate was older than the one year the tank has been set up, maybe it harboured some pathogen or bacteria that is now affecting the fish? The substrate is a very useful bacterial bed, but surely it can also harbour things we don't want if not cleaned well enough or a disease enters?

Second, I must disagree on the nitrate. Mollies are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen, be it ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. I learned this some years ago, though I cannot remember from who, but he was one of the livebearer authorities probably in TFH. Nitrate at 20ppm is way too high. If you have no nitrate in the source water, then it occurs solely within the aquarium and that should be easy to resolve.

From their water report, their source water already has 14ppm nitrAte, so that's not awful, but not great either. Would you suggest increased water changes? Maybe an emergent plant like pothos could help?

First, a substrate is crucial here. Then not overstocking or overfeeding. Then larger water changes to get the nitrate as low as possible and keep it there from water change to water change. Then get some live plants, and floaters are ideal for this as they are literally "ammonia sinks."

I do agree with those who said GH must be 250ppm or higher, and also agree that at 239ppm it is not so low here as to be directly responsible.

 

[Byron]

I thought I read every post, obviously missed a couple things. Tank still needs a clean substrate. On the nitrate, 14ppm is high for mollies, I would look into methods to deal with high-nitrate source water. @AbbeysDad has articles on his blog as he has/had this problem. Terrestrial plants with their roots in the tank water (can be in a filter hanging on the tank) are said to help, though in a thread a couple of months back this seemed to get disproven so I'll leave it at that.

 

[mollydesperation]

First is the lack of a substrate. This is always going to cause bacterial issues because the substrate is the filter bed of an aquarium, and it is virtually impossible to keep it healthy when it is a sheet of glass.. It is deadly for substrate fish like cories, but I see no reason why upper fish cannot be impacted too. A sand or fine gravel substrate is important.

I have new substrate ready to go in. and only took it out the other day.

OP did say they only removed the substrate and plants a few days ago, "because it/they were old", while the fish have been ailing for months. I agree, I don't like bare tanks for many reasons, but also wonder if the substrate was older than the one year the tank has been set up, maybe it harboured some pathogen or bacteria that is now affecting the fish? The substrate is a very useful bacterial bed, but surely it can also harbour things we don't want if not cleaned well enough or a disease enters?

Its brand new substrate, should I put it in the tank now? Or is that going to possibly complicate things more

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I have new substrate ready to go in. and only took it out the other day.

Its brand new substrate, should I put it in the tank now? Or is that going to possibly complicate things more

Give the new substrate a good rinse first - what brand/product/substrate is it? As in the brand? Because most new substrates need a thorough rinse using a bucket and hose before putting in the tank toremove dust and debris that will cloud up the tank and irritate the fish, which we don't want when they're already stressed and ill. So after a thorough rinse, yes, you can put it in the tank.

 

[mollydesperation]

Give the new substrate a good rinse first - what brand/product/substrate is it? As in the brand? Because most new substrates need a thorough rinse using a bucket and hose before putting in the tank toremove dust and debris that will cloud up the tank and irritate the fish, which we don't want when they're already stressed and ill. So after a thorough rinse, yes, you can put it in the tank.

Plant Care. Unfortunately the only stuff I could get my hands on today. Does say no rinsing, use direct

 

[Colin_T]

The GH is not the issue. It's a bit low and the fish would be better in harder water but 180ppm GH is not the issue.

The fish spinning in the video has an infection in the brain. It could be caused by bacteria, protozoa or a virus. Due to the large number of fish in the tank, it is probably protozoan. It also appears skinny and that could be from intestinal worms and or gill flukes. Mollies and other common livebearers from Asia regularly carry intestinal worms and gill flukes.

If the fish have been developing cream, white or grey patches on parts of their body or fins, it is an external protozoan infection. These occur in dirty tanks that usually have lots of fish and lots of food going in, but not enough water changes or gravel cleans. Cleaning the tank and adding salt is the recommended course of treatment.

See section 3 of the following link for treating intestinal worms in fish. Treat them for worms after you have dealt with the protozoan issue.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

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WHAT TO DO NOW.
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water change and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below). Keep salt in the tank for at least 2 weeks and if possible 3-4 weeks.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[mollydesperation]

WHAT TO DO NOW.

75% water change has just been done, whole tank has been scrubbed down with a brand new sponge. Filter has had a complete clean just now too for the new water. I've added your recommended dose of aquarium salt just now until the treatment arrives (eSHa 2000, eSHa Exit). Thank you for your advice. I will be keeping the thread updated.

On the nitrate, 14ppm is high for mollies, I would look into methods to deal with high-nitrate source water.

Apologies if i have said another figure elsewhere. I have been everywhere all day and unable to really think straight through all this. Absolute love my fish and even seeing one in discomfort has been really getting to me.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Plant Care. Unfortunately the only stuff I could get my hands on today. Does say no rinsing, use direct

Fuplie, I didn't realise it was a planted substrate. No, don't add that! It'll leach ammonia and nitrogen, that's the last thing we need.

Needs to be inert. Sand or gravel. Even if you only use a thin layer of it for now, then change it out once the fish recover and can handle you changing the substrate again.