Seem to be losing all my molly fish :(

[mollydesperation]

Water report for my area:
Your drinking water supply is classed as hard.

Calcium: 83 mg/l Ca
Magnesium: 7.2 mg/l Mg
Fluoride: 0.10 mg/l
Hardness: 239 mg/l CACO3

Alkalinity: 189 mg/l CaCO3 No legal limit applies
Alkalinity: 230 mg/l HCO3 No legal limit applies
Chloride: 17 mg/l Cl Legal limit 250
Nitrate: 14 mg/l NO3 Legal limit 50
Phosphate: 1.9 mg/l P No legal limit applies
Sulphate: 35 mg/l SO4 Legal limit 250
Sodium: 20 mg/l Na Legal limit 200
Conductivity: 454 μS/cm @200 C Legal limit 2500

 

[mollydesperation]

Black mottled one has now started the frantic spinning in circles

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Water report for my area:
Your drinking water supply is classed as hard.

Calcium: 83 mg/l Ca
Magnesium: 7.2 mg/l Mg
Fluoride: 0.10 mg/l
Hardness: 239 mg/l CACO3

Alkalinity: 189 mg/l CaCO3 No legal limit applies
Alkalinity: 230 mg/l HCO3 No legal limit applies
Chloride: 17 mg/l Cl Legal limit 250
Nitrate: 14 mg/l NO3 Legal limit 50
Phosphate: 1.9 mg/l P No legal limit applies
Sulphate: 35 mg/l SO4 Legal limit 250
Sodium: 20 mg/l Na Legal limit 200
Conductivity: 454 μS/cm @200 C Legal limit 2500

That's useful - I don't know the conversions myself, but I know that essjay does and can help you find out the GH in fishkeeping terms from this!

 

[mollydesperation]

That's useful - I don't know the conversions myself, but I know that essjay does and can help you find out the GH in fishkeeping terms from this!

13.391ppm from an online tool I found. Seems on the low end but not bad right?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Black mottled one has now started the frantic spinning in circles

@TwoTankAmin @GaryE sorry to tag you both, but this is pretty bad and I'm out of my depth, and concerned for all of the fish I saw in that vid...

Could something like a protozoan remain dormant for a long time, then get worse/travel to the brain or something because the fish are weakened by stress or something else?

I don't like the sound of a bare tank with no substrate and plants... how long has it been like that? Likely not the cause, obviously, but fish don't love bare tanks, it's stressful for them to feel so exposed, you also lost the benefits of plants helping the water quality, and if the water is indeed softer than they're used to, then all those things could perhaps combine and lead to some losses... but the fish behaviour and losing so many in such a rapid period of time suggests some kind of parasite or disease spreading. But you say nothing new to the tank, and they came from home-bred stock, so when and how did a disease or parasite get introduced?

@mollydesperation I can recommend eSHa brand products, if it's any help. I don't know which might help with a protozoa, or even if it's a protozoa causing this! I'm just saying that the brand tends to make good meds, I've used their worming meds and the eSHa 2000 successfully before.

 

[mollydesperation]

I don't like the sound of a bare tank with no substrate and plants... how long has it been like that? Likely not the cause, obviously, but fish don't love bare tanks, it's stressful for them to feel so exposed, you also lost the benefits of plants helping the water quality, and if the water is indeed softer than they're used to, then all those things could perhaps combine and lead to some losses... but the fish behaviour and losing so many in such a rapid period of time suggests some kind of parasite or disease spreading. But you say nothing new to the tank, and they came from home-bred stock, so when and how did a disease or parasite get introduced?

Substrate and plants have only been gone a few days. Trust me I absolutely miss having my tank full of plants and I have a whole bunch on order I should be receiving soon. They do have hiding places normally and will have new substrate tomorrow.

I just really don't understand why its all of a sudden their health has gone like this. Nothing new to the tank apart from when the tank was setup once I moved house.

 

[Essjay]

These are the measurements you need to look at

Hardness: 239 mg/l CACO3

Alkalinity: 189 mg/l CaCO3

Nitrate: 14 mg/l NO3 Legal limit 50

Hardness in mg/l CaCO3 is the same as ppm, so your water is OK for mollies. A bit harder would be better but it is not low enough to cause 'soft water' symptoms.

Alkalinity is what fishkeepers call KH. This stabilises pH and yours is high enough that the pH should remain very stable.

Nitrate is below 20 ppm, but not far off. If you can keep it below 20 ppm between one water change and the next it will be good for fish. There are some species which need very low nitrate, but I don't know if mollies are one of them. Someone will know.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Substrate and plants have only been gone a few days. Trust me I absolutely miss having my tank full of plants and I have a whole bunch on order I should be receiving soon. They do have hiding places normally and will have new substrate tomorrow.

Ah... I wouldn't add that order of plants to this tank until this is resolved, to be fair. don't want to potentially contaminate them or kill them with meds

I just really don't understand why its all of a sudden their health has gone like this. Nothing new to the tank apart from when the tank was setup once I moved house.

That suggests that perhaps it's something bacterial that could have developed and is affecting the fish then, if absolutely nothing new has been added, since a virus or protozoan wouldn't usually appear out of nowhere then spread so fast and badly.

Or possibly something has contaminated the tank and is affected the fish, like my friend was losing fish to brain bleeding, and it turned out to be because her small child was putting his fingers in the tank for the fish to nibble when they came home from shopping at the height of covid, and he still had the remains of hand sanitiser on his hands. That was a tiny amount of contamination in a large 55g tank, but it still nearly wiped out her stock in a horrible way.Any chance a cleaning chemical, air freshener, contaminant on someone's hands like perfume or lotion could have happened?

What are the water test results now for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? When and what amount was the last water change?

 

[GaryE]

My first thought watching that video is neurological damage from low mineral content. But that doesn't go with the the water analysis.

The "Shimmies" and the "spins" are known problems with hardwater species. However, I have seen cardinals do this, so it isn't exclusive. We are not equipped to analyze viral problems, but there are known viral causes for similar behaviour especially in trout and other cold water fish.

@emeraldking is the experienced voice we need here. I've seen fish do this, but they haven't been my fish, and so I have never researched what's going on in depth.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

These are the measurements you need to look at


Hardness in mg/l CaCO3 is the same as ppm, so your water is OK for mollies. A bit harder would be better but it is not low enough to cause 'soft water' symptoms.

Alkalinity is what fishkeepers call KH. This stabilises pH and yours is high enough that the pH should remain very stable.

You are a genius and wonderful, thank you! Yeah, that hardness def shouldn't have them dying so young or spinning that way, and it doesn't seem like the "failure to thrive" type of weakness I think of when mollies are kept too long in soft water.

Nitrate is below 20 ppm, but not far off. If you can keep it below 20 ppm between one water change and the next it will be good for fish. There are some species which need very low nitrate, but I don't know if mollies are one of them. Someone will know.

Nah, mollies are hardy as anything. They can tolerate higher nitrAte levels pretty well. The trio I inherited from dad's nightmare tank lived a long, long life of more than eight years in water that was hard, but rarely changed and mostly just topped up, so when I took over maintenance and tested the water, it took many small water changes (to avoid old tank syndrome) just to get the API kit to be able to read it, the nitrates were so sky high. Then many more gradually increasing water changes to get it into a healthy range. Those mollies lasted more than eight years, gre huge, churned out tons of beautifully healthy babies that were also hardy, and survived several tank crashes and disasters. Tough fish! It seems to be the more extreme soft water fish that struggle the most with higher nitrates.

Not that that's an excuse, mollies shouldn't be left in high nitrate water, not what I'm saying. Just that I find it very unlikely that the nitrates have anything to do with this mass loss, unless they've always been way, way higher than 20ppm for a long time.

 

[mollydesperation]

Ah... I wouldn't add that order of plants to this tank until this is resolved, to be fair. don't want to potentially contaminate them or kill them with meds

Was going to hold off until this is over, just had them on order

Any chance a cleaning chemical, air freshener, contaminant on someone's hands like perfume or lotion could have happened?

That could have happened thinking about it. Partner does some put spray on in the room near the tanks.

What are the water test results now for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? When and what amount was the last water change?

Last change was 2 days ago, 50%.
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 1-2ppm

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

That could have happened thinking about it. Partner does some put spray on in the room near the tanks.

Stop her doing that - best to avoid any arasol sprays in the same room as a fish tank, and wash hands and forearms thoroughly before touching the water too. Spray droplets making in onto or into the tanks, or sucked into the filters as they suck in air, can wipe out a tank easily. Only use water to clean the outside of the tank and stand itself, be cautious about using any cleaning products in the room with the tank - aim for creams and apply spray to a cloth in a different room when you want to clean or polish other furniture in that room.

Also be careful of things like essential oil diffusers and cleaning products, avoid air fresheners in that room etc.

If contamination is the likely suspect, then wiping down the inside of the tank with a fish safe, unused sponge and doing large water changes to try to physically remove and dilute it out is the solution. Also rinse the filter media in the old tank water each time. You can change 75-80% of the water at a time since your parameters are okay, so long as you use a declorinator, and match the temp of the new water to the tank temperature before putting it in the tank.

I would be taking this approach right now, personally, while hopefully others here see this and can help, because I'd want to wipe down the internal tank glass and do large water changes whether it's contamination, protozoan, bacterial or viral. Lots of clean fresh water is the best shot and first aid while we narrow things down.

Last change was 2 days ago, 50%.
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25ppm

Does ammonia always read with potentially 0.25ppm? The test also picks up on ammonium which is harmless and some have in their tapwater, so they always have a low level reading, but it's actually fine for the fish. But if it's abnormal for you to get a reading like that, then it's worth noting and investigating.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I don't relish the idea of throwing meds at fish without knowing the underlying cause, but since we often have to use guesswork and our best attempts at judgement anyway and often can't pin down a definite diagnosis without lab tests, which would be crazy to pay for with molly fish even if there's a vet that specialises in aquatics, which not many do.

So in your shoes, given that I've used eSHa meds before and found them effective, I'd call round the fish stores in your area and see if any stock the eSHa products you want, so you don't have to order them online and wait days for delivery. If they don't stock, then order them online, and do the tank cleanings and water changes while you wait for meds to arrive, and dilute out the salt since you'd be doing meds instead.

I'd opt for both eSHa 2000 and eSHa Exit, since you can use them together, and hopefully they could treat whatever is ailing them, if it isn't contamination.

 

[Ichthys]

One possible cause of all this would be either chronic or acute poisoning, possibly from bad tapwater. You also mentioned a spray near the tank? Bad tapwater is less common these days but it does still happen, especially after they’ve been digging up the pipes. It happened to me a few years ago. Even though I’m confident the PolyFilter removed whatever toxin it was, the damage was done, and all fish went downhill but took a few months to die.
I would get some PolyFilter and see if there’s any improvement.

 

[mollydesperation]

Stop her doing that - best to avoid any arasol sprays in the same room as a fish tank, and wash hands and forearms thoroughly before touching the water too. Spray droplets making in onto or into the tanks, or sucked into the filters as they suck in air, can wipe out a tank easily. Only use water to clean the outside of the tank and stand itself, be cautious about using any cleaning products in the room with the tank - aim for creams and apply spray to a cloth in a different room when you want to clean or polish other furniture in that room.

Everything else ive been good on. apart from the sprays recently.

I would be taking this approach right now, personally, while hopefully others here see this and can help, because I'd want to wipe down the internal tank glass and do large water changes whether it's contamination, protozoan, bacterial or viral. Lots of clean fresh water is the best shot and first aid while we narrow things down.

Getting on a water change in a moment. Just got some salt for them, will start the dosages recommended by Colin.

I'd opt for both eSHa 2000 and eSHa Exit, since you can use them together, and hopefully they could treat whatever is ailing them, if it isn't contamination.

looked around, a lot of the places around me are quite bad and only keep basic API and tetra stock. Would melafix / pimafix be suitable? (And would I use this instead of salt)