Schooling Tankmates For Sa Puffers

[Ceramicbull]

Just daydreaming about a future tank, and I was wondering if there are any neat schooling fish like Harlequin Rasbora that would cohabit well with Amazon puffers.

 

[Carlovel1]

Just daydreaming about a future tank, and I was wondering if there are any neat schooling fish like Harlequin Rasbora that would cohabit well with Amazon puffers.

Indian Glassfish, Giant Danio and large Tetras such as Bleeding Hearts or Black Widows are ideal as they are fast enough to escape the puffer

 

[nmonks]

Indeed, as Carlovel1 says above, if it's fast -- and the aquarium is big enough for everyone to avoid the puffers -- then they should get along fine. Bleeding heart tetras and black widows are ideal choices, having just the right amount of pushiness themselves. Tiger or ruby barbs would be good choices too. In hard water you might try something like Ameca splendens or Xenotoca eiseni; I've used the former with them and had no problems except occasionally the goodeids nipping at the SAPs!

SAPs are opportunistic fin-nippers and they aren't aggressive at all. So in the right tank they can be delightful. They also mix well with other puffer species; I've kept them with Carinotetraodon irrubesco, and the combination of species is very rewarding, providing pufferfish-shaped activity at all levels of the tank.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Ceramicbull]

How big was your Amazon/irrubesco tank and how many of each did you have? I'm hoping for 55-75g for my next tank, one of my potential ideas was a big freshwater community. I also know I want to get puffers so mabye Amazon puffs would get two birds with one stone. If I were to say go for 3 Amazons, 6 each of Ruby Barb, Tiger Barb, and Black Widow Tetra, would there be any catfish or plecos that would be suitable?

 

[nmonks]

180 litres, or about 50 US gallons. Three SAPs and two pairs of irrubesco.

Dwarf Synodontis work fine with SAPs, and my Panaque does not get bitten. Its things like Corydoras and glass catfish I wouldn't recommend.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Ceramicbull]

180 litres, or about 50 US gallons. Three SAPs and two pairs of irrubesco.

Dwarf Synodontis work fine with SAPs, and my Panaque does not get bitten. Its things like Corydoras and glass catfish I wouldn't recommend.

Cheers, Neale

You are referring to Synodontis pectricola right?

Wow, so in that tank you not only have the 5 (or is it 7?) puffers, but also a royal plec and "a large school of platinum halfbeaks Dermogenys siamensis; a school of bleeding heart tetras; three Synodontis nigroventris; some glassfish; a female Pelvicachromis taeniatus; a Garra cambodgiensis; and dozens of Limia nigrofasciata."

In 50 gallons? I mean, I saw that the filtration you had for the tank was tremendous, but they don't seem crowded at all?

I was going to ask if the 3 puffers, 18 Barbs and Tetras, and a royal plec would be fine for a 75g; but heck, I guess if I get the filtration right I could cram them all in a 55g with room to spare?

 

[nmonks]

You are referring to Synodontis pectricola right?

No; S. nigriventris. I dare say any other small syno would be fine though, water chemistry permitting.

Wow, so in that tank you not only have the 5 (or is it 7?) puffers, but also a royal plec and "a large school of platinum halfbeaks Dermogenys siamensis; a school of bleeding heart tetras; three Synodontis nigroventris; some glassfish; a female Pelvicachromis taeniatus; a Garra cambodgiensis; and dozens of Limia nigrofasciata."
In 50 gallons? I mean, I saw that the filtration you had for the tank was tremendous, but they don't seem crowded at all?

Not all at once! Constantly changing. At the moment the 180-litre tank has three S. nigriventris; the royal plec (she's only 15 cm or so long, and 16 years old, so I don't think she's growing any more); five Ameca splendens, a single male C. irrubesco, a single male cherry-fin loach, two young pike characins about 10 cm long, and the Garra. Filtration is pretty heavy duty though.

I was going to ask if the 3 puffers, 18 Barbs and Tetras, and a royal plec would be fine for a 75g; but heck, I guess if I get the filtration right I could cram them all in a 55g with room to spare?

Well, the royal plec will get pretty darn big in theory, though as I say, mine never got to more than 15 cm long. She's fat as anything, but not that long. But the other fish should be fine in there. Does depend on what tetras and barbs you go for though; some are more demanding than others.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Ceramicbull]

That makes much more sense. A. splendens sound interesting, but I'm a bit nervous keeping something whose survival may be in the balance.

Would a fully grown royal plec be safe in a 75g tank? I understand they can grow to as much as 17 inches, and the tanks I am looking at are 18" wide and 20" tall. Also, since all the fish I'm looking at come from rivers, I assume I'm going to want a decent powerhead as well if I were to go this way? Or would the filtration necessary for the puffers/plec provide enough current?

Provisional livestocking:
3x Amazon Puffer
9x Black Widow Tetra
9x Tiger Barb (the only species not from SA rivers, tempted to find something else)
1x Royal Plec

Finally, coming from AZ the water is fairly hard and basic. Rainwater is only sporadically available, so how can I fix this? Plenty of bogwood might help the pH but what can I do to soften the water a bit? Also, all the bogwood at the LFS is Malaysian bogwood, I hope that won't upset a South American stomach?

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with the setup. Next time I'm by the LFS and look at the Synos. I'm infatuated with the Royal plec at the moment but #41####, thats a big fish.

Thanks for all the help,

C-Bull

 

[nmonks]

That makes much more sense. A. splendens sound interesting, but I'm a bit nervous keeping something whose survival may be in the balance.

Don't be. The species is very secure in captivity, and the fish sold in aquarium shops have been "domesticated" for 20 odd years. In fact there's a conservation issue here because the domesticated Ameca splendens are much more aggressive than the (very few) wild ones. More specifically, domesticated males spend more time fighting and less time feeding than the wild ones. This implies some sort of genetic change, presumably because food is easier to get, so males have more time and energy to spend on competition for females. Bottom line, returning the domesticated ones to the wild may cause problems, the domesticated ones pushing out wild-type males from any contests over females.

Would a fully grown royal plec be safe in a 75g tank?

Should be fine; most don't get all that big, 20 cm/8 inches seems about average.

Also, since all the fish I'm looking at come from rivers, I assume I'm going to want a decent powerhead as well if I were to go this way? Or would the filtration necessary for the puffers/plec provide enough current?

I'd beef up water turnover rates to about 8-10 times that of the volume of the tank per hour.

Finally, coming from AZ the water is fairly hard and basic.

Not a problem for the puffer or the Panaque, but it might be a factor so far as barbs and tetras go. There are some Mexican tetras that prefer hard water, for example Astyanax mexicanus, but they aren't terribly widely sold, with the exception of the Blind Cave Tetra. You might even look at Cyprichromis from Lake Malawi, a cichlid that thinks its a sardine. Might do rather will in your local water chemistry?

I'm infatuated with the Royal plec at the moment but #41####, thats a big fish.

There isn't "a" royal plec, that's the problem. Some, like mine, never get bigger than 20 cm/8 inches. Others get twice that. What we call Panaque nigrolineatus is probably a complex of species, or subspecies at least.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Ceramicbull]

Fascinating stuff about A. splendens. Also fascinating, though much more aggravating, are the multiple subspecies of "royal plec".

I assume your endorsement of Cyprichromis also confirms that it will get along fine with the puffers. They look pretty, but is this a fish I'm going to just have to frequent the "misc. African Cichlid" tank to find?

 

[nmonks]

Not an endorsement. But just a suggestion! Big tank, fast-swimmers… might be worth a shot?

Cheers, Neale

I assume your endorsement of Cyprichromis also confirms that it will get along fine with the puffers.

 

[Ceramicbull]

Went out just to look at fish today, and noted that the Black Widow Tetras (sold at Petco as "Black Skirt") didn't seem the type to keep with SA Puffers. They had huge fins and weren't terribly active. Perhaps it was just the tiny Petco tank?

Oh, and my local LFS is decent enough to know that their "Royal Pleco" is L191, which comes out to about 10". Whether or not I add the puffers, I think I'll definately get the plec when I start the large community.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[nmonks]

My royal panaque gets along fine with puffers. Hides most of the time anyway.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Carlovel1]

They are too fast for the puffer to catch and nip. If your still worried though, you could get some Black/Red Phantom Tetras instead.
Plecs get on well with anything really, including Puffers & Piranhas!
Carlovel1

 

[nmonks]

Up to a point. There are some very nasty piranha species that will attack plecs, in particular those species that feed primarily on scales and fins as opposed to whole fish. And plecs also tend to attack one another; Acanthicus plecs are famously territorial catfish that will kill rivals. Plecs attacking large cichlids like oscars is not uncommon either. A couple of days ago someone wrote into us at Wet Web Media about what he thought was damage caused by one oscar attacking another. My analysis of the photos he sent us was different: it looked like classic plec damage, though admittedly the plec may well have been taking advantage of an oscar that was weakened or stressed.

So while yes, plecs are generally gentle giants that do little harm in community tank, there are some issues to consider.

Cheers, Neale

Plecs get on well with anything really, including Puffers & Piranhas!