Sap from mopani wood... Okay for ADFs?

[Seisage]

I recently bought a couple pieces of mopani wood for scaping my ADF tank. The wood I got is from Zoo Med and is stated to be safe for aquariums.

I do know that mopani wood has a lot of tannins. I don't mind a tannin look, but figured I'd soak out some of it so it's not quite so strong. I had the wood soaking for a few days with a couple water changes. I didn't boil the pieces and don't plan on doing so, although I have poured boiling water on them. I was planning on adding the wood and scaping today but noticed that one of the pieces had little bubbles of sap on it. The other piece didn't appear to have any sap, but it does smell like sap/resin.

In doing some research, it seems this is not supposed to happen with mopani wood (although it occasionally does). I'm also reading extremely conflicting advice online about whether the sap in dangerous, for amphibians as well as for fish, inverts, and aquariums in general. Any thoughts?

I've already called Zoo Med customer service. The woman I spoke to said that they've used mopani wood with their amphibians before, but I'm not sure if it matters whether it's in an aquatic environment. She also said that I could email her with pictures of the sap bubbles and they could replace the piece, but if I can't really use mopani wood for anything aquatic, I'd rather just get my money back.

Edit: It seems a number of people use and recommend mopani for axolotls? I would imagine they aren't much different from ADFs in terms of delicacy, considering they're both aquatic amphibians. So maybe the piece without the sap leaking would be okay?

 

[MaloK]

I wouldn't worry too much about the sap, considering ADFs swampy, plant-filled natural environment, they surely encounter a good natural level of diverse tannin and sap in their water... .

 

[Seisage]

I wouldn't worry too much about the sap, considering ADFs swampy, plant-filled natural environment, they surely encounter a good natural level of diverse tannin and sap in their water... .

That's true, although the difference is that the wild is an open system, whereas a tank is a closed one, so any toxic compound is going to be more concentrated in a tank. I made an edit to my original post about this, but I found a fair few axolotl people recommending mopani wood. Since ADFs and axolotls are both aquatic amphibians, I would imagine they're pretty similar in terms of skin permeability. Based on that, the piece that doesn't have sap leaking from it might be alright, but I think I'll hold off on large-scale scaping and leave them both soaking for a while longer. I'll keep an eye on the sappy piece, I guess, and if it's still producing sap, I might try to return it or get a replacement.

 

[MaloK]

It depends on the size of the piece, but assume that they leech a lot more than many other drift woods.

I have a 5 pounds piece soaking at the moment and the water is still darkening too fast for my taste. It can take a couple weeks before they calm down. Some are so dense they sink dry. But they give a beautiful color to the water.

I never boil or put hot water wen soaking wood because it promotes fungus proliferation once introduced in the tank.

Sluggishness, numbness, lost of appetite are the first sign of "botanical overdose".

 

[Seisage]

It depends on the size of the piece, but assume that they leech a lot more than many other drift woods.

I have a 5 pounds piece soaking at the moment and the water is still darkening too fast for my taste. It can take a couple weeks before they calm down. Some are so dense they sink dry. But they give a beautiful color to the water.

I never boil or put hot water wen soaking wood because it promotes fungus proliferation once introduced in the tank.

Sluggishness, numbness, lost of appetite are the first sign of "botanical overdose".

Yes, these two pieces were very dense. They sank in the soaking bucket immediately.
I'll definitely leave them soaking. I have to move house in a couple weeks anyway, so I'll hold off on scaping until then.
Actually... I might try to look for different wood for the ADF tank and save the mopani for my 25gal. Fish are less sensitive than amphibians and I want high tannins for that tank anyway. I'd just have to figure out how to work it into the existing scape...

Good to know the symptoms of botanical toxicity. I'll definitely be on the lookout for those in whatever tank I put the mopani in.

 

[MaloK]

Yeah,

I OD my shrimp tank with alder cones, and the shrimps looked like they been drinking. Things when back to normal with a good water change and a little carbon.

But they looked drunk, from what I was able to see in that soup.

ADFs drink water by their skin. So overdosing is quite possible.

 

[Jamie D.]

I had mopani wood in my ADF tank for quite awhile - I didn't soak or boil it first, just gave it a quick rinse and stuck it in there, since it was dense enough to sink right away. I don't recall seeing any sap leeching from mine.

My frogs liked it well enough to tunnel under, and the only reason I replaced it was to give them a larger piece of driftwood that would give them more cave-like opportunities. Now it's in my betta tank, growing algae and moss like crazy.

From a quick google search and scrolling through some other anecdotal forum/reddit comments, it looks like the sap is most likely brought to the surface by boiling (those who don't notice it seem to have only soaked the wood in room temp water or just put in in their tank, those who report seeing sap seem to have hit the wood with boiling water or high heat of some sort), which makes sense (the heat would warm it and make it run). That would make sense in nature, too - most natural bodies of water wouldn't be warm enough to make sap run (I don't think - I'm no biologist, though).

But it seems generally accepted that the sap is toxic, so now that it's leeching from your piece, I'd either keep soaking it until you don't see any more sap, or just toss it and buy something else (or mopani and don't boil it, just soak it). That's what I would do, anyways.

 

[Seisage]

I had mopani wood in my ADF tank for quite awhile - I didn't soak or boil it first, just gave it a quick rinse and stuck it in there, since it was dense enough to sink right away. I don't recall seeing any sap leeching from mine.

My frogs liked it well enough to tunnel under, and the only reason I replaced it was to give them a larger piece of driftwood that would give them more cave-like opportunities. Now it's in my betta tank, growing algae and moss like crazy.

From a quick google search and scrolling through some other anecdotal forum/reddit comments, it looks like the sap is most likely brought to the surface by boiling (those who don't notice it seem to have only soaked the wood in room temp water or just put in in their tank, those who report seeing sap seem to have hit the wood with boiling water or high heat of some sort), which makes sense (the heat would warm it and make it run). That would make sense in nature, too - most natural bodies of water wouldn't be warm enough to make sap run (I don't think - I'm no biologist, though).

But it seems generally accepted that the sap is toxic, so now that it's leeching from your piece, I'd either keep soaking it until you don't see any more sap, or just toss it and buy something else (or mopani and don't boil it, just soak it). That's what I would do, anyways.

That's a relief to hear you've used mopani with your ADFs without issue! I'll definitely use the piece that hasn't had sap come out, then. Which is great because it's a really pretty piece. It has a hole through it that looks to be just big enough for the frogs to swim through at their current size

It's interesting... I haven't boiled the wood, and I didn't pour boiling water on them until after I saw the sap (thinking it would help leach it all out quicker). I guess maybe during one of the prior water changes I did use slightly warmer water. Maybe that was enough to pull the sap out I think I'll just keep soaking it for now and see how it goes.