Sand?

[sparkypenguin]

Hi all,
I am considering changing my substrate from gravel to sand and I wanted to check if I this is going to be a mistake / harmful to any of my fish.
The reason I am changing is that I have corys and I am concerned about damage to their barbels as 1 has lost one side, however it's a new fish and tbh I did not check when purchasing so could have already been like this.
The sand I am considering moving to is unipac silver sand.
It's a 165L tank and these are its occupants
3 Mollys
5 Platys
4 Panda Corys
3 Red Robin (Honey) Gouramis
5 Neon Tetra
Lots of baby platys and mollys which will be moved on at some point.
My Ammonia, Nitrite levels are both zero.
My Nitrate is around 10.
Daily water changes of 7%.
PH around 7.5.
General Hardness around 12.
Any advice much appreciated.
Mark.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Shouldn't be a problem! I have Unipac silver sand in one of my tanks, and I'd say it's one of the best choices you could make. It's very fine, so they can sift through it easily, and my cories love it!

My pygmy cories enjoying feeding time on their sandy beach, unipac silver sand;

Cories filter feed through sand, so they pass the sand through their gills, filtering out particles of food. Unipac is fine enough to allow them to do this without harming their gills, and means they get to practice this natural behaviour, which they can't do when kept on gravel on stones, so you're not just reducing the risks of damage to their barbels, but improving other aspects of their life as well.

The sand itself won't pose a hazard to any of your fish. But as when changing any substrate, there are some things you need to prepare for in advance. The beneficial bacteria (BB) which process fish waste don't only live in your filter, but on every hard surface in your tank, including the substrate. The substrate holds a huge chunk of the BB in most tanks that are cycled, so removing that in one go can sometimes lead to ammonia and/or nitrite spikes, often referred to as a mini cycle. Called a mini cycle because you'll still have the types of BB a cycled tank needs in your filter and other hard surfaces, it just takes some time for the population of BB to regrow to the amount it usually needs to handle your tanks bioload, usually a few days to a week - so it isn't like cycling a tank from scratch! Now that you're aware that it's likely to happen, you can be prepared for that. Doing the substrate change at a time when you'll be able to do daily water changes for a while is a wise plan.

Just means to keep testing your water more frequently in the days following the substrate change, and it's worth fasting your fish for the first few days (or at least only feeding very lightly), since less food in means less waste out- and potentially daily water changes for those first few days - a week, allowing those BB to catch up and repopulate the new substrate. Doing the substrate change at a time when you'll be able to do daily water changes for a while is a wise plan.

Another tip I'd suggest after going through a mini cycle myself is to use Prime water conditioner during this time at least, since it binds ammonia and nitrites for 24-48 hours, keeping your fish safe in between those daily water changes. Not all water conditioners do this, and while my mini-cycle only lasted about four days, levels did get high enough to be dangerous, and I lost a beloved fish, and regret not using Prime during that time since not all water conditioners bind ammonia and nitrite.

Lastly, I wouldn't recommend trying to switch the substrate while the fish are in the tank-better to remove them into a bucket with an airstone (and a towel over the top to prevent jumpers) while you do it, since not only would it be stressful for them and take a lot longer for you if they remain in the tank, but sometimes there's nastiness hidden under the gravel that gets released when you're stirring it up.

If you do a forum search for changing substrate, you'll find tons of other threads about the topic, and pick up more tips! Good on ya mate for wanting the best for your fish

 

[sparkypenguin]

@AdoraBelle Dearheart
Thanks for help, it's much appreciated.
I did not consider the fact that the bacteria lives in the substrate but now informed I suppose it's fairly obvious.
I already do daily water changes as standard so that's not a problem and I already condition my tap water using prime so I'll up the concentration during the cross over.
I'm not sure about taking the fish out so I may leave them in and then do small sectional changes of the substrate.
e.g. I would clear a 20% area of the tank floor of all plants etc and then do a gravel clean of that area before removing the cleaned gravel and replacing with the sand.
I would then repeat this every few days.
I may even leave some as gravel or do you think that the Corys will end up damaging their barbels even if most was sand?

I did forget to put in my OP that I am also considering on getting some bristle nose plecs, guppys, emperor tetras and cherry barbs and hence would the sand be ok for them?
I have tried to find a list of fish that gives ideal / acceptable substrates but so far no joy.

I'll do the search "changing substrate" as you suggested

 

[Deleted member 149562]

To make life a bit easier when deciding to put sand into an existing setup is to form a sand "beach"

To do this you need a 1.5 or 2 litre water or fizzy pop bottle (if fizzy pop rinse it out really really well before use). Cut the bottom off the bottle.

On your next water change before adding the Cories or when they are already there (doesn't matter), get your bottle, turn it upside down and gently move the gravel aside to make a space down to glass bottom is exposed, around 25% of the gravel area will be fine. Once that is done, get your sand and hold the bottle no more than an inch or two above the now cleared area of the glass bottom in the aquarium and very very slowly pour the sand through the bottle, gently moving it to make a decent depth of sand to fill the space made earlier. By hovering the bottle close to the bottom it will stop clouds of sand flying everywhere and you still get to keep all the good bacteria in the gravel cos you moved it rather than removed it.

 

[sparkypenguin]

@wasmewasntit - Thanks that's a good idea .
I could use some pipe and a funnel at the top.

 

[connorlindeman]

I just switched last sunday. Took me about 4 hours but it was worth it!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

@AdoraBelle Dearheart
Thanks for help, it's much appreciated.
I did not consider the fact that the bacteria lives in the substrate but now informed I suppose it's fairly obvious.
I already do daily water changes as standard so that's not a problem and I already condition my tap water using prime so I'll up the concentration during the cross over.
I'm not sure about taking the fish out so I may leave them in and then do small sectional changes of the substrate.
e.g. I would clear a 20% area of the tank floor of all plants etc and then do a gravel clean of that area before removing the cleaned gravel and replacing with the sand.
I would then repeat this every few days.
I may even leave some as gravel or do you think that the Corys will end up damaging their barbels even if most was sand?

I did forget to put in my OP that I am also considering on getting some bristle nose plecs, guppys, emperor tetras and cherry barbs and hence would the sand be ok for them?
I have tried to find a list of fish that gives ideal / acceptable substrates but so far no joy.

I'll do the search "changing substrate" as you suggested

No worries!

Sand won't be a problem for any of the other fish you mentioned either, most wouldn't care whether sand or gravel, except the plecs might find the sand more comfortable on the belly and easier to eat from.

It's possible to leave some of the gravel and add a sand beach - that's how my pygmy cory tank is, but that was only because my tank already had gravel, I added the sand beach as a temporary measure because the tank was supposed to come down anyway, then the pygmy cories went nuts breeding, and we decided if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But I still plan to switch them to a sand only tank myself, partly for concern about their barbs (although I make sure to feed on the sand beach), but also for the below reasons;

Personally, I'd suggest doing it in one go. Like I said, Unipac silver sand is especially fine, and it will get mixed into the gravel, especially with cories digging around in there, and you'll be throwing away sand, while trying to pick gravel out of the sand until the end of days. Trust me on this one...! Since you mentioned plants too, remember that their roots will have spread out, and when you lift the plant, mulm, tiny bits of gravel and debris is going to scatter into your nice clean new sand. This kind of job is always messier than you think it'll be!

Better to get it over and done with in one go!

An alternative to buckets, if you're concerned for the fish and for how quickly you'd need to do the job, is to set up a temporary "tank" for them. You can get a large food safe storage tote, like this one;

Transfer some of the gravel, any decor, some of the tank water, the heater (with a heater guard, or propped on stones away from the plastic surfaces) and rig the filter to it, add an airstone. Transfer fish to tote. Transfer plants to it, you can just leave them floating in the tote with the fish. And boom! You have a temporary tank so you can spend a few days cleaning and sorting out their main tank, without being rushed to do it all in a few hours, or stressing out the fish. I've kept a tank full of fish in a tote like this for a few days, wasn't a problem at all! Can also come in handy as a quarantine tank that can be packed away between uses.

 

[Byron]

If you intend changing the substrate, you are far better off doing it in one go. This will be stressful on the fish, but moving them to a temporary tank (a small aquarium or a container like that shown in post #7) is significantly less stress on the fish. Also, it is much easier when it comes to the task, and aquascaping. I've done it many times over the last two decades.

None of the fish mentioned have problems with sand, quite the opposite. But before you add any of the fish mentioned in post #3, you need to deal with possible issues with the existing fish, in terms of numbers especially. Cories need more here, and given the space I would suggest 10-12 (or more). Neon tetra will be better with 12 minimum. These are shoaling species, and numbers have a considerable impact on the well-being of the individual fish in the species.

 

[sparkypenguin]

@Byron
Thanks for the help again
I was planning to get some more corys and neons but not up to the numbers you suggest.
Info on the web suggests a minimum of 4 corys and 6 Neons but I assume your figures are much better than simply sticking to the minimum.
For the Corys can I mix the types or should they all be Pandas?
Same question for the Neons?

 

[Byron]

Info on the web suggests a minimum of 4 corys and 6 Neons but I assume your figures are much better than simply sticking to the minimum.

This problem comes up a lot...conflicting "information" from different sites. It is a serious handicap especially to beginning aquarists who are looking for good advice. One must know the knowledge level of the individual who owns the site or the individuals who provide the information on the site. I won't get further into that issue now, but move on to your specific questions.

Minimum numbers really don't help a lot, and I have no doubt this need arose because those asking had small tanks and may have recognized there are only so many fish that can live well in small spaces. Freshwater fish that live in groups are termed shoaling, sometimes schooling though technically that term better applies to marine fish because of the different traits especially in feeding. Most shoaling species live in groups of hundreds. A few scientifically-controlled studies have determined that when it comes to maintaining these species within the confines of an aquarium, without any doubt that the larger the number of fish of that species the healthier they will be. One study looked at four shoaling species, studied in groups of three, five and ten; the fish in the groups of three and five showed increased aggression, more frequent "daring" which is a sign of shock or stress, and even a latency to feed. The groups of ten had none of these issues. Interestingly, we know that keeping fish in too small a tank also increases aggression and leads to more health issues, so this is all related.

Neon tetras, like all characins (the large family which includes tetras, hatchetfishes and pencilfishes, along with characidium-type species) will be less stressed with 10 or more, and that means better health long-term. Stress is the direct cause of some 90% of all aquarium fish disease, so avoiding stress goes a long way to having healthy fish. All this applies to other fish too, like the cyprinids (rasboras, danios, barbs, loaches), rainbowfishes, and Corydoras catfishes. The numbers I suggested previously are minimum, but without question will result in less problems for your fish.

For the Corys can I mix the types or should they all be Pandas?
Same question for the Neons?

The vast majority of shoaling fish need groups of their own species. Distinct species are distinct from all other species because of various physiological aspects, as well as distinctive behaviours and requirements, that are inherent in the genetic blueprint of that species. If the neon tetras for example "expect" to be in a large group, they will need a group of their own to satisfy this need and reduce the stress. In the study I mentioned above, the fish even hesitated to feed when there were fewer than ten of the species; clearly this need is strong to do that. We cannot alter the DNA of the species, we can only understand it and do our best to provide accordingly. If an aquarium is not large enough to safely maintain 10 or 12 of the species, then that species should not be kept.

The same applies to species of Corydoras, but here we have another factor. This group of fishes are highly social. While having several of each species is advisable, they do seem to really enjoy "playing" with other species too, and clearly, the more cories in the tank, the better.

 

[Stan510]

I would strongly advise-- avoid sand. After decades of gravel,I put in 100 pounds of pool sand in my big tank. What a mistake!..I've since added about 50,60 pounds of aquarium gravel in the middle.
Let me tell you,sand is the worst fad to hit the hobby in people who want to imitate Amano. Sand- even pool sand,is still too dense for roots. It also seem to do no filtering the water unlike gravel that DOES help the bio media as water from pumps flows over the gravel bed.
Amano,did not plant in sand- he used it as decor and planted in his aquasoil/gravel. But,I know people love the look of white sands and to me you would have to be doing hi tech to pull that off. Co2 and lots of light might help plant roots spread into the sand. For most,better to plant in gravel..Amazon soils..all that.

 

[sparkypenguin]

@Byron
Thanks for that and it makes total sense.
I'll be prioritising increasing the number of my shoaling fish.
I must admit that when I went from my 2 Pandas up to 4 their behaviour improved dramatically.

@Stan510
Thanks for your comment and I take on board what you are saying but at the moment I only have plastic plants and I really want the sand for my Corys.
I am however strongly considering retaining a gravelled area so long term this may be where I put any live plants.
Can I ask who Amano is?

 

[Byron]

Sand is the best substrate in an aquarium for fish (with very few exceptions, these being fish that occur in hill streams with gravel and rock boulders) and certainly for plants. There are no plants that cannot/will not grow because they are in sand. The denseness of the sand being detrimental to plants makes no sense when one realizes that in their habitats these plants grow in sand and soil (= mud) and the latter is much denser.

I have been using play sand for 12 years now. The photos below are of my 5-foot 115g tank with a 4-inch substrate of play sand; this particular photo was taken three years after the substrate was changed from gravel to sand. Second is the 70g in 2016. I'd like to hear from anyone who thinks the plants are not thriving in sand.

[Takashi Amano was a Japanese aquarist who pioneered the "Nature Aquarium" style of planted aquaria. His aquascapes are like photographs of "nature" but nothing you would ever see under any body of freshwater. Certainly not fish-oriented/centred tanks.]

 

[connorlindeman]

those plants are thriving!

 

[Byron]

I noticed a mention of using two different substrate materials. This can work, some [people like it, but I don't like the fact that it makes the space appear smaller--like uniform flooring in a room, a consistent substrate material will always make the space seem natural and larger, visually. Second issue, two substrate materials will mix due to natural water flow and fish activity, unless they are separated by some sort of divider that is siliconed to the tank floor (glass).