Sand, Gravel Or Bare Bottom?

[Chad]

Here's some interesting reading on the subject in case this experiment hasn't been posted yet.
 
Part 1 http/www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature
Part 2 http/www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/7/aafeature

I keep a shallow sand bed using a fine grain substrate. The article linked above states, "The greatest differences among experimental treatments were observed as decreased buffering capacity, and higher final phosphate concentration of aquaria with coarse sediments relative to those with fine sediments." also, I just like the look of a fine grained sand and the animals I have that live in it require it.

 

[Midas]

Interesting, thanks Chad.  I thought this paragraph was most helpful:
 
Overall death rates were roughly twice as high in aquaria with shallow sediments as in deep sediment treatments. The highest overall death rates were seen in aquaria with shallow coarse sediments over a plenum, and the lowest death rates occurred in aquaria with a sandbed composed of deep coarse sediments. The treatments that were closest to the design aquarists employ for deep sandbed, Miracle Mud and Jaubert plenum aquaria had intermediate death rates. The shallow coarse sediment design that is closest to that used in Berlin systems had one of the highest death rates, and the deep coarse sediment design for which there is currently no accepted name had the lowest overall mortality (Fig. 10). We did not test bare bottom tanks, but the data clearly suggest that the shallower the sediment, the higher the mortality rate, and you can't get much shallower than a bare bottom tank!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Interesting, thanks Chad.  I thought this paragraph was most helpful:
 
Overall death rates were roughly twice as high in aquaria with shallow sediments as in deep sediment treatments. The highest overall death rates were seen in aquaria with shallow coarse sediments over a plenum, and the lowest death rates occurred in aquaria with a sandbed composed of deep coarse sediments. The treatments that were closest to the design aquarists employ for deep sandbed, Miracle Mud and Jaubert plenum aquaria had intermediate death rates. The shallow coarse sediment design that is closest to that used in Berlin systems had one of the highest death rates, and the deep coarse sediment design for which there is currently no accepted name had the lowest overall mortality (Fig. 10). We did not test bare bottom tanks, but the data clearly suggest that the shallower the sediment, the higher the mortality rate, and you can't get much shallower than a bare bottom tank!

 
I'd like to see that actually tested though...

 

[Midas]

Well the study stated this early on
 
... aquarists across the world have spent countless hours arguing the relative pros and cons of various aquarium designs. Passion for our hobby is good, but these arguments are meaningless and a waste of time; it is impossible to make an informed decision on the best way to set up an aquarium without real DATA to evaluate how different options perform
 
seems to be a good source of information compared to... other sources.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I was referring only to the bare bottom tank study... Most breeders use bare bottom tanks for the fry, and the same is true of QT... as it allows folks to completely clean detritus, inspect poo, etc.

 

[Chad]

BB tanks are easy to clean which is one reason breeders use them. They also cost less so if you have 75 tanks and don't have to buy substrate. Also BB means one less place for a parasite to hide and easier catching of fish when the time comes to move them to another tank. Those who keep BB tanks swear by them and it's one of those things people get into fist fights over. Personally I won't keep a BB tank simply because I don't think it's attractive but also because I keep several sand dwelling creatures (nassarius, pistol shrimp with his goby friend, and a fighting conch).

 

[Midas]

Oh man I can't decide.  I don't think I have ever been more indecisive, I keep changing my mind. I am thinking about going and getting the sand but then feeling like I will regret it and wish I had my bb back since that's so easy to keep clean.  Meanwhile I got two buckets of beach rock just sitting next to me that wouldn't cost a dime.

 

[Fishmanic]

how big is the beach rock?  I use Petco small blue gravel.  It's easy to vacuum through it and looks super.  Bought it on ebay--25# for $25 shipped.  Sand does have it's benefits for catfish as it's easier for them to sift through it to find food.  Preferably the rock you mentioned should be smaller than pea size in my opinion.

 

[Midas]

The beach rock is huge compared to the gravel.  I put a picture up a couple of posts ago on this string page 1.  I just went to this store pacificnyc.com‎ , which was very cool with some very interesting fish but the guy there talked me out of getting sand as he said my type of fish love to dig, which is true, and they would spit the sand out and it would end up getting into the filter.  He also agreed that white sand would change the color of the fish.  Since he talked me out of purchasing something in his store, I believe him.

 

[rpgmomma8404]

 

 

 

Do you ever have a problem with sand getting into your filters?

A little but it's no big deal. I think if there is a lot going in it can damage it.
Sand is harder to clean wich is the only down side. It's better for many fish that dig or fish with barbs/babbles as they can get damaged in gravel.

 
 
I disagree.  I believe sand is easier to clean, because you see more of the stuff that needs cleaning.  Gravel is better at camouflaging the detritus and allowing it to get into the bottom and not come out.
 
It takes patience to clean the sand, but I do believe that a sand tank is cleaner than a gravel tank.


I had gravel and could clean it in minutes with a gravel vac but sand takes 20 times longer you can't gravel vac it you have to get the hose as near as possible and try to salvage or replace the sand that will get sucked up. Also it's not just about the visible waste, sand is notoriously worse for getting build up of bad gases that can kill your fish. You will need to regularly turn all the sand or get some digging fish or invertebrates to do this. I tried mts snails but my cichlids liked the way they taste.

Defiantly agree that gravel hides waste and with clean looking sand you know its clean.
 


 
To prevent toxic gases from building up. You have to remove everything out of the tank (can leave the fish in but might not hurt to put them in a container while doing this), get your hands in the tank and stir the sand up as much as possible. Do the water change, let it settle a little bit, put everything back in the tank and then turn stuff back on. I guess this could be done once or twice a month. Maybe with every water change. I also heard that malaysian trumpet snails will reduce the problem too. 

 

[Chad]

The toxic gases will only build up in a deep sand bed that creates anoxic zones. In a shallow sand bed this is not an issue.
 
I have plenty of creatures that dig in my sand and fish that spit it out, not an issue. It simply sinks right back down again.

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

The toxic gases will only build up in a deep sand bed that creates anoxic zones. In a shallow sand bed this is not an issue.

I'm thinking of setting up a sand substrate tank soon.  At what depth will anoxic/anaerobic zones be created?

 

[Chad]

This article is for reef keepers but the information on hydrogen sulfide applies to FW as well.
http/reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/
 
The exact depth can depend on conditions in the tank. I generally keep 2-3" of sand. I've had build up in FW before when I had a very deep area, it was about 5" or so.

 

[Maehlice]

Can I vote "none of the above"?
 
If it was there, I'd vote for dirt.  Good ole dirt.  I won't entertain an argument for it or try to convince you, though; I'll just link you to the book which is arguably the "bible" for the notion:
 
www.amazon.com/Ecology-Planted-Aquarium-Practical-Scientific/dp/0967377307
 
 

I went and priced out sand at the lfs but they told me "white" may not be a good choice for me because the fish may become lighter in color.

 
If you decide to go with sand, don't waste your money at the LFS.  Instead, go to the pool store and buy the sand they put in their pool filters.  Same stuff; 100 times cheaper.  You can literally buy a truckload for the price you'd pay otherwise.
 
Likewise, "regular gravel" is far cheaper and better, IMO, than "aquarium gravel".  All the "aquarium gravel" I've ever seen is jagged as hell, whereas "river rock" and "pea gravel" available in bulk (once again, you can buy it by the ton) or in 40# bags at a big-box stores is immensely smoother and better on the eyes.
 
I've also heard lighter substrate causes your fish to be lighter in color, but I've also read it's an optical illusion.
 
 
For what it's worth, I use a combination of dirt topped with pea gravel -- both purchased at Lowe's.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I've heard the same about the optical illusion, but it doesn't matter to me.... I think my fish look better to me with a dark background/substrate.  And that's what really matters, whether its real or not is immaterial.  (And I'm a physics teacher.  This isn't about science, its about art.  What 'looks good' is most important, as long as it doesn't adversely affect my fish's health.)