Salt Freshwater Tank

[grayshark1956]

Okay, hope I'm in the right place:

1- just bought mini baby fiddler-type crab for freshwater tank
2- just read on computer about care for this crab, found out he needs salt in his water
3- called store was told he does not require salt
4- researched difference between instant ocean salt and natural sea salt without iodine I already have
5- found controversy about adding any salt to freshwater tank, don't know if crab can survive without salt, don't know for sure any salt won't harm fish: betta, mollies, platys, goldfish that all get along fine, this crab does not have one huge red pincher, she has two identical sized main pinchers and all I know is that this crab is 1 3/4" wide and changes color from dark brownish-brackish to cherry red normally. I bought crab/lobster pellets and it has a beautiful rock cave I made with live plants, she seems quite content.

So, does anyone have any advice on salt, freshwater tank, crab survival with or without salt? Any advice would be greatly appreciated soon, thanks for reading all this, Grayshark1956

 

[Chad]

Both are true after a sort. The crab can live in freshwater, brackish, and I've even seen them in marine. But they don't do well in freshwater for their entire lifespan and thrive in brackish water. Another thing people don't always consider is that these are not aquatic crabs, they need to come out of the water so need some zone above the waterline. I've kept a ton of these crabs as I would feed them to my puffer and as pets. I used the same salt as I did for my marine tank (Instant Ocean) but kept it in low salt conditions (1.008-1.010).

Most plants won't do well at that salinity and freshwater fish (with a few exceptions like molly) that much salt will kill them.

 

[grayshark1956]

Both are true after a sort. The crab can live in freshwater, brackish, and I've even seen them in marine. But they don't do well in freshwater for their entire lifespan and thrive in brackish water. Another thing people don't always consider is that these are not aquatic crabs, they need to come out of the water so need some zone above the waterline. I've kept a ton of these crabs as I would feed them to my puffer and as pets. I used the same salt as I did for my marine tank (Instant Ocean) but kept it in low salt conditions (1.008-1.010).

Most plants won't do well at that salinity and freshwater fish (with a few exceptions like molly) that much salt will kill them.

Thanks for helping so fast! I built a vertical rock cave with plants toward top so crab can get out of water, I have crab/lobster pellets, have natural sea salt, can add it for the benefit of the crab and if it will not harm the betta, platys, mollies, goldfish. But, is there that great of a difference between instant ocean and my salt that would cause harm? If so, I'll buy instant ocean, I did not anticipate this crab needed some land area as most all of them were under water in the store. He seems very content in rocks and plants. I just don't want to harm the crab or the fish. Too much controversy on the salt issue for me to determine what's right. Thanks, Grayshark1956. I'm home the rest of the day in case there is more advice.

 

[Chad]

You're welcome.

I think it's more a matter of best practice than an actual controversy. Can the crab live in totally fresh water? The answer is yes, it can. Is that best? No. Why? Because it shortens the crab's lifespan. I know this from my own experience with them.

Aquarium salt is quite different than marine salt so it's not the same thing nor what they need. They are a crab that lives in salt marshes and the intertidal zone.

There are several good papers from universities on the crab and it's habitat that should clear the issue up for you as they outline the natural habitat of the crab as I stated above to areas that are clearly salt and not fresh in nature.

https/docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:OW7QgJ-mmhcJ:www.dnr.sc.gov/cwcs/pdf/FiddlerCrab.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESinTRiARVeH0U9yhzN8lfjpue39hFE6-AnXCu5tPRga9Op0BTqj8HWFfu9Uvv65Bl9VfnFl9Sm4EXtCi6gLYPYVBXJyy-2A90gJm8Pq0kbrHJigb_M06C4xtaIXMwH0FW11axdm&sig=AHIEtbRmgYM0qNrgEAvb4-LtxYN3yjsJbg&pli=1

http/www.edc.uri.edu/restoration/html/gallery/invert/fiddler.htm

http/www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/fiddler/

http/www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opwall.com%2FUniversities%2FThesis%2FDissertation_summaries%2FIH291%2520%2520Ecology%2520and%2520behaviour%2520of%2520fiddler%2520and%2520sentinel%2520crab%2520populations%2C%2520Indonesia.pdf&ei=LqNCUOG4L-KbjAK424CQBA&usg=AFQjCNEGtl4212LtJqZrADPkT-mOPtNOhg

 

[grayshark1956]

Both are true after a sort. The crab can live in freshwater, brackish, and I've even seen them in marine. But they don't do well in freshwater for their entire lifespan and thrive in brackish water. Another thing people don't always consider is that these are not aquatic crabs, they need to come out of the water so need some zone above the waterline. I've kept a ton of these crabs as I would feed them to my puffer and as pets. I used the same salt as I did for my marine tank (Instant Ocean) but kept it in low salt conditions (1.008-1.010).

Most plants won't do well at that salinity and freshwater fish (with a few exceptions like molly) that much salt will kill them.

Thanks for helping so fast! I built a vertical rock cave with plants toward top so crab can get out of water, I have crab/lobster pellets, have natural sea salt, can add it for the benefit of the crab and if it will not harm the betta, platys, mollies, goldfish. But, is there that great of a difference between instant ocean and my salt that would cause harm? If so, I'll buy instant ocean, I did not anticipate this crab needed some land area as most all of them were under water in the store. He seems very content in rocks and plants. I just don't want to harm the crab or the fish. Too much controversy on the salt issue for me to determine what's right. Thanks, Grayshark1956. I'm home the rest of the day in case there is more advice.

Okay, now I have some sort of conclusion: I went back to the same store, bought a second crab, a different employee gave me a brochure to read this time (its still in my car), I asked about salt again, she read brochure briefly and said I did not need to add salt, then checked with manager who said they don't add salt to the crabs but if I did, it would be okay, said it won't harm fish. The key here is type of salt, amount, how often. They said natural sea salt with no iodine was fine, add very very small amount no more than once a month. So, I might research a little more then decide whether to add salt. Thought this may help anyone in same situation.

 

[grayshark1956]

Both are true after a sort. The crab can live in freshwater, brackish, and I've even seen them in marine. But they don't do well in freshwater for their entire lifespan and thrive in brackish water. Another thing people don't always consider is that these are not aquatic crabs, they need to come out of the water so need some zone above the waterline. I've kept a ton of these crabs as I would feed them to my puffer and as pets. I used the same salt as I did for my marine tank (Instant Ocean) but kept it in low salt conditions (1.008-1.010).

Most plants won't do well at that salinity and freshwater fish (with a few exceptions like molly) that much salt will kill them.

Thanks for helping so fast! I built a vertical rock cave with plants toward top so crab can get out of water, I have crab/lobster pellets, have natural sea salt, can add it for the benefit of the crab and if it will not harm the betta, platys, mollies, goldfish. But, is there that great of a difference between instant ocean and my salt that would cause harm? If so, I'll buy instant ocean, I did not anticipate this crab needed some land area as most all of them were under water in the store. He seems very content in rocks and plants. I just don't want to harm the crab or the fish. Too much controversy on the salt issue for me to determine what's right. Thanks, Grayshark1956. I'm home the rest of the day in case there is more advice.

Okay, now I have some sort of conclusion: I went back to the same store, bought a second crab, a different employee gave me a brochure to read this time (its still in my car), I asked about salt again, she read brochure briefly and said I did not need to add salt, then checked with manager who said they don't add salt to the crabs but if I did, it would be okay, said it won't harm fish. The key here is type of salt, amount, how often. They said natural sea salt with no iodine was fine, add very very small amount no more than once a month. So, I might research a little more then decide whether to add salt. Thought this may help anyone in same situation.

Thanks again for writing, what you said is what I thought after reading about their habitat. I can do as you suggested, the info I read did mention their life would be shortened without the right water ( with salt ), so I'll look into it and I just checked on them and they're playing in the plants, sometimes looks like they are tossing gravel around out of boredom. Thanks for your knowledge, this is my first time with these creatures!

 

[Chad]

I don't agree with their conclusion for the long term health of the crab or the fish.
Too much salt is bad for the fish, not enough is bad for the crab. The amount that is healthy for the crab is not healthy for the fish.
Crabs need iodine and other trace elements in the water which is found in marine salt. These trace elements play an integral part in molting and exoskeleton creation.

Again...can it be done with aquarium salt? Yes. Is that best? My experience and research has led me to say that it's not.

I love them! I am a crab and shrimp fanatic. I love red claw and fiddlers. My reef tank has a number of crab species living in it and I wouldn't feel complete without them somewhere in a tank.

 

[grayshark1956]

I don't agree with their conclusion for the long term health of the crab or the fish.
Too much salt is bad for the fish, not enough is bad for the crab. The amount that is healthy for the crab is not healthy for the fish.
Crabs need iodine and other trace elements in the water which is found in marine salt. These trace elements play an integral part in molting and exoskeleton creation.

Again...can it be done with aquarium salt? Yes. Is that best? My experience and research has led me to say that it's not.

I love them! I am a crab and shrimp fanatic. I love red claw and fiddlers. My reef tank has a number of crab species living in it and I wouldn't feel complete without them somewhere in a tank.

I agree, I also love these creatures and want the water to be perfect for the crabs as well as the fish. I think some salt is needed to maintain the crabs' lives, and the amount and type needs to be precise. So, yes, I'm aware of their care being right. The tank is my hobby and as important as my dogs, and they are family. But, I'm taking your advice, wish I had a reef tank, too. I'll write again and let other members know how my tankmates are doing, hopefully the salt discussion will help members who were in a similar situation. I also wish pet stores had more experienced people to give advice or send home booklets to new pet owners. A brochure does not answer all my questions. I found a pet store that did not give their hamsters wheels. I was shocked! I also found hamster cages with empty water bottles. I can tell when an employee's heart is not in their work. Those are a few examples. Tonight I might figure out names for my new crabs and will get the right salt. Thanks for writing, you are very, very helpful!

 

[Chad]

The tank is my hobby and as important as my dogs, and they are family.

That's wonderful to hear. You sound conscientious!
I really look forward to seeing photos from your tank and learning how your creatures do in the future.

 

[grayshark1956]

The tank is my hobby and as important as my dogs, and they are family.

That's wonderful to hear. You sound conscientious!
I really look forward to seeing photos from your tank and learning how your creatures do in the future.

I will add pictures if I can figure out how, but I wrote again to ask if boiled cholla/choya wood from a pet store is safe to put into freshwater fishtank for fiddler crabs to climb on until I get a better object to use for them? This wood was from my hermit crab days and it came from a pet store. Just wanted to know if this is safe for fish, too? Thanks.

 

[grayshark1956]

The tank is my hobby and as important as my dogs, and they are family.

That's wonderful to hear. You sound conscientious!
I really look forward to seeing photos from your tank and learning how your creatures do in the future.

Thanks for the compliment! I have to ask if boiled cholla/choya wood is okay to float on top of their cave so they can get out of the water until I find something better to use? This was store bought wood used for hermit crabs, hope it is safe in my tank, thanks again.

 

[Chad]

I don't know. I never would have thought to use jumping cactus core in a fish tank. I'm really not sure what the composition of it is. cholla cactus grow all over here in Arizona but since it's a strictly dry desert plant it's not something that ever becomes drift wood per se.

 

[DrRob]

Question to which I suspect I already know the answer.

Is there any scope for taking this an opportunity, or possibly a sign, to set up a separate brackish tank? Some amazing fish available once you do that, as well as crustaceans. The mollies could probably move over as well and leave the main tank for fully freshwater fish.

 

[grayshark1956]

I don't know. I never would have thought to use jumping cactus core in a fish tank. I'm really not sure what the composition of it is. cholla cactus grow all over here in Arizona but since it's a strictly dry desert plant it's not something that ever becomes drift wood per se.

What happened was I read about people that put it in their fish tanks and fish or crabs had their fry inside. I had 2 kinds of wood from hermit crabs, both came from pet stores, I boiled them last night and the darker wood turned the water in the pan brown, so that one I would not add to tank. The other, I believe is cholla or choya or probably a type of diftwood? So it was boiled a long time time, taken out to cool and dry overnight, thismorning its in one piece! I thought crabs would like to crawl inside, good hiding place. So, I'll go to the petstore maybe today and see what the choices are. I lowered my water level, lowered the heater, they have a nice smooth rock with hornwort to crawl on. I'll investigate the wood more which must be cholla.I also added some salt, very, very small amount, fish appear normal and active today.

 

[grayshark1956]

Question to which I suspect I already know the answer.

Is there any scope for taking this an opportunity, or possibly a sign, to set up a separate brackish tank? Some amazing fish available once you do that, as well as crustaceans. The mollies could probably move over as well and leave the main tank for fully freshwater fish.

Well, yes, but for many reasons right now I can't do that yet. Long story, the tank I have is easy to care for and I had this tank long before I discovered crabs. I did donate many of my goldfish yesterday to a nearby goldfish pond, like other people do because pet stores have their reasons for not accepting free goldfish. I would rather have bettas and tropicals. The crabs were an unexpected find and too interesting to pass up. I would love a brackish tank!! I have spent hours rearranging my tank, removing goldfish and plastic plants, added real plant and rock cave and its really nice. I'm happy with the changes I made and the new tropical fish I bought. The cherry fiddler crabs are an added bonus that really got my interest. I like brackish tanks because they are such a natural looking habitat and would also be fun to arrange.