Saintly's "pastel Shades" The Return

[bagu]

stunning tanks! love the 1st one

 

[lljdma06]

Thank you for answering Saintly, and I'm glad I asked because I think this will begin a worthy discussion.

Time for a couple more questions.

When you pruned your stems, did you keep the bottom portion of the stem in the scape, or the top? What did you do with the top (cutting)?

Forgive me, you probably already know this, but indulge me. In stemplants, the stongest part of the plant isn't the bottom, it's the top portion where the terminal bud is. Replanted stem tops are stonger than their topless counterparts. The topless counterparts then often form branches. This how we get stems to become bushy, like we like in scapes. However, the two stems resulting from that branching are usually weaker than the single original stem. Cut the branches again, and you then get more branches, but further weaker stems. At least this has been my experience with stems. Eventually, you get the weakening bottom that you describe and the stem becomes unsightly.

When you ditch the bottom, and keep the top stem, you get a stronger plant because you preserve the terminal bud at its original strength. The roots of the stems are not where the plant derives its primary source of nutrients, it obtains directly from the leaves in the water column, and the leaves closer to the terminal bud are stronger because they are younger! A stronger stem with a stonger terminal bud will perhaps absorb nutrients more effectively than the weaker branched stems. Perhaps the longevity of my stemplants stems (gosh, really no pun intended) from my dominant use of the stem tops rather than staying with the bottom half. That is an awkward sentence. The bottom portion of the stem is what I usually threw out, not the tops. In my journals, there are a few instances when members ask why I maintained leaves all the way down to the subtrate, even in established scapes; that is probably why. When I did want a bushy effect and used the branching stems, I often had to use more fertiliser to get the same vigor.

Of course this made for creative scaping as I often had to stagger stem tops of various lengths to get that bushy effect without using the more bushy stem bottoms.

Also, this type of stem usage may explain the 2-3 years I can get out of my stems, and why I can use them in more long-term scapes. About a year or so, rather than the 3-5 months. That and probably the lower light levels I use. Eventually, they do get spent, or you kind of get sick of the plant, which occurs more often. They are not the same as the root-feeders, or the rhizome plants, which endure much longer. I liken stems to the annuals of the gardening world, while the root-feeders and rhizomes are the perennials.

Your thoughts? Well, at least it's not the usual "oooo, pretty tank."

llj

 

[saintly]

Thank you for answering Saintly, and I'm glad I asked because I think this will begin a worthy discussion.

Time for a couple more questions.

When you pruned your stems, did you keep the bottom portion of the stem in the scape, or the top? What did you do with the top (cutting)?

Forgive me, you probably already know this, but indulge me. In stemplants, the stongest part of the plant isn't the bottom, it's the top portion where the terminal bud is. Replanted stem tops are stonger than their topless counterparts. The topless counterparts then often form branches. This how we get stems to become bushy, like we like in scapes. However, the two stems resulting from that branching are usually weaker than the single original stem. Cut the branches again, and you then get more branches, but further weaker stems. At least this has been my experience with stems. Eventually, you get the weakening bottom that you describe and the stem becomes unsightly.

When you ditch the bottom, and keep the top stem, you get a stronger plant because you preserve the terminal bud at its original strength. The roots of the stems are not where the plant derives its primary source of nutrients, it obtains directly from the leaves in the water column, and the leaves closer to the terminal bud are stronger because they are younger! A stronger stem with a stonger terminal bud will perhaps absorb nutrients more effectively than the weaker branched stems. Perhaps the longevity of my stemplants stems (gosh, really no pun intended) from my dominant use of the stem tops rather than staying with the bottom half. That is an awkward sentence. The bottom portion of the stem is what I usually threw out, not the tops. In my journals, there are a few instances when members ask why I maintained leaves all the way down to the subtrate, even in established scapes; that is probably why. When I did want a bushy effect and used the branching stems, I often had to use more fertiliser to get the same vigor.

Of course this made for creative scaping as I often had to stagger stem tops of various lengths to get that bushy effect without using the more bushy stem bottoms.

Also, this type of stem usage may explain the 2-3 years I can get out of my stems, and why I can use them in more long-term scapes. About a year or so, rather than the 3-5 months. That and probably the lower light levels I use. Eventually, they do get spent, or you kind of get sick of the plant, which occurs more often. They are not the same as the root-feeders, or the rhizome plants, which endure much longer. I liken stems to the annuals of the gardening world, while the root-feeders and rhizomes are the perennials.

Your thoughts? Well, at least it's not the usual "oooo, pretty tank."

llj

ahh, nice!

OK, real easy answer from me ....i don't like going into a tank a keep up rooting stems, it's a pain and can lead to an unbalanced eco system.

you have to remember that amano himself trims stems in the fashion that i explained. of course it's possible to keep replanting the cuttings, but hey, who'd want to keep doing that?

he also says in an aquajournal interview, he'd never consider using stems in a scape that would last for years. even if you did, it would be an absolute hassle I'm guessing

again, my tanks last for 6 months because i "force them" goodness, even my anubias grows quick!...seriously!

i could cut the lighting and slow things right down. but I'm into learning fast. why go to school for 5 years when you can learn in 3?.....my mind needs to be challenged all the time, trying things....you get the picture

the last image with the rotala in, could of gone on even longer, it was just time for a change. It's a luxury i have of being creative at will without it costing me...only my credibility if it goes wrong, the downside of public display (not happened yet, thankfully)

can you imagine keep uprooting all the stems in my 60cm and replanting every 2 weeks?......me neither

good questions my friend.

 

[lljdma06]

he also says in an aquajournal interview, he'd never consider using stems in a scape that would last for years. even if you did, it would be an absolute hassle I'm guessing

No, honestly, it really wasn't much of a hassle, I just got tired of the same plants all the time, like you did with your rotala. They were in a part of the tank I could easily access and I used a more course substrate, so there was less disruption. Also, the upheaval in my cases are minimal because the growth is slower. I use much less light than Amano does. Would I do this in a high-tech, probably not, the growth is too fast.

As for learning quickly and wanting the mind to be challenged. While that may be great and what you want to do, there is a challenge in promoting duration as well, only a different kind. Much slower pace, but you gain insight as well. The ability to get things to live as long as possible is pretty cool too, just in a different way. I have anubias, crypts and a tiger lotus that are about 5 years old now. My swords are about 2 years. You get to watch plants reach maturity, go through cycles of die-back and regrowth, flower. Kind of interesting in a different way. Maybe it is an age thing.

llj

 

[saintly]

he also says in an aquajournal interview, he'd never consider using stems in a scape that would last for years. even if you did, it would be an absolute hassle I'm guessing

No, honestly, it really wasn't much of a hassle, I just got tired of the same plants all the time, like you did with your rotala. They were in a part of the tank I could easily access and I used a more course substrate, so there was less disruption. Also, the upheaval in my cases are minimal because the growth is slower. I use much less light than Amano does. Would I do this in a high-tech, probably not, the growth is too fast.

As for learning quickly and wanting the mind to be challenged. While that may be great and what you want to do, there is a challenge in promoting duration as well, only a different kind. Much slower pace, but you gain insight as well. The ability to get things to live as long as possible is pretty cool too, just in a different way. I have anubias, crypts and a tiger lotus that are about 5 years old now. My swords are about 2 years. You get to watch plants reach maturity, go through cycles of die-back and regrowth, flower. Kind of interesting in a different way. Maybe it is an age thing.

llj

I fully understand what you mean. and the thought of producing a scape that i could nurture for 4 or 5 years sounds an amazing prospect. and soon it will happen when i've got the space. i've recently seen an anubias that's come out of a tank that was just 2 years old and goodness the anubias was huge!

regards to flowers, I do get them even in my relatively quick tanks, anubias always flowers for me, and recently in other tanks i manage to get blyxa to flower, even underwater!

I would love to see a real mature crypts scape, the longest i've had them is about 4 months, not mature i know, but they did look amazing, so for that reason alone is enough to make me excited about producing a long-term scape...one day in the future

 

[lljdma06]

I fully understand what you mean. and the thought of producing a scape that i could nurture for 4 or 5 years sounds an amazing prospect. and soon it will happen when i've got the space. i've recently seen an anubias that's come out of a tank that was just 2 years old and goodness the anubias was huge!

Yeah, the best part is when you can create like 12 good-sized anubias from a big mother plant. Well, for the most part, all my scapes will become that way eventually, so you can get your fix that way.

 

[saintly]

heres an experiment with coloured backgrounds.

the colours rendered seem much more realistic to day light. i've used a very light blue.

 

[Gill]

Dunno How I missed this one, Stunning. Love the use of The Pencilfish

 

[mancin]

Wow, wish I could put something together like that. Looks fantastic!

 

[saintly]

Wow, wish I could put something together like that. Looks fantastic!

thanks mate. it's dedication and time. thats all.

Time for an update,

a few things have happened, namely the disappearance of Alternanthera reineckii. the plant just didn't sit right within the scape. but in my defence this was only a practise tank!

so this is how it looked 1 week ago...

it's not that it wasnt in great health, it was. i just didnt like it.

The trimming...

and how it finally looks after a W/C. remember this is has been newly trimmed so theres no new crowns yet...you'll have to ignore the equipment too

many thanks for reading __________________

 

[azzaknight]

one of the best looking tanks ve seen on this forum. love it!!

 

[lljdma06]

You bad boy.

I like the A. reineckii better, but if you're happy...

 

[three-fingers]

Missed this one! Wow, some really amazing photography work there! And of course, the scape is stunning too!

I think I preferred it with the A.reineckii too.

It still looks very, very nice, but is a bit more boring. Maybe add those cardinals now?? Or some other plant that isnt just green .

I like different colours lol.

 

[lljdma06]

I think I preferred it with the A.reineckii too.

It still looks very, very nice, but is a bit more boring.

My point exactly. Not that it isn't beautiful, it is, but now it kind of looks like everyone else's ADA setup and it is very safe now. The A. reineckii made it look different. Yeah, maybe you would have been blasted for it in competition, but it definitely would have elicited a response. You took away the "risk" factor in your tank. Sorry, just my honest opinion.

llj

 

[saintly]

I think I preferred it with the A.reineckii too.

It still looks very, very nice, but is a bit more boring.

My point exactly. Not that it isn't beautiful, it is, but now it kind of looks like everyone else's ADA setup and it is very safe now. The A. reineckii made it look different. Yeah, maybe you would have been blasted for it in competition, but it definitely would have elicited a response. You took away the "risk" factor in your tank. Sorry, just my honest opinion.

llj

easy folks, all is not lost. after all i've got my whole life ahead of me. it's not like this is the last tank I'm ever likely to scape.

in a way, to say it looks like every other nature aquarium, actually means a lot to me. i love them!

another thing i take with me is the fact that this particular layout would work in SOOOO many ways. not just the one.

after all, this was just a stem practise tank so more to come from this tank and me!