Rushed...and ....

Stevie8

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I think i may have messed up big time..... :sad:

I had a week old tank (60 ltr)....that I stuffed with fish...

eg

5 x Neon
5 x dayglow
5 x Golden Barb
5 x cherry Barb
3 x mollies
2 x platy
2 x Sailfin plec
2 x Clown loach
2 x dwarf Gourami
2 x Zebra Danios
1 x siamise fighting fish

Basically...i was like a kid a in a sweet shop and kept going back the second week and getting a couple more, i know, this isn't good, and feel really guilty now after finding this forum. I've been doing a 30% water change everyday to keep the levels down, but they still aren't perfect, all i can do is hope the fish get to survive my inexperience and over eagerness.

any other advise anybody can offer ?

The fish do actually seem fine at the moment
 
I think i may have messed up big time..... :sad:

I had a week old tank (60 ltr)....that I stuffed with fish...

eg

5 x Neon
5 x dayglow
5 x Golden Barb
5 x cherry Barb
3 x mollies
2 x platy
2 x Sailfin plec
2 x Clown loach
2 x dwarf Gourami
2 x Zebra Danios
1 x siamise fighting fish

Basically...i was like a kid a in a sweet shop and kept going back the second week and getting a couple more, i know, this isn't good, and feel really guilty now after finding this forum. I've been doing a 30% water change everyday to keep the levels down, but they still aren't perfect, all i can do is hope the fish get to survive my inexperience and over eagerness.

any other advise anybody can offer ?

The fish do actually seem fine at the moment

WOW thats alot of fish :blink:
My advice...keep up with the water changes and get a much bigger tank. Also I would take back at least the gouramis and plecos.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. :hi:

As mentioned, you are severely overstocked. My advice would be to return all of the fish and do a fishless cycle or at least return all but 2 or 3 of the more hardy ones and do a fish in cycle. If you don't you are definitely going to lose most of them as you will soon have massive ammonia and nitite problems. Even if you did get them through the cycle some how, you are still overstocked and have some pretty bad compatibility problems (bettas with gouramis and danios) along with fish that are not suitable for a tank that small (pleco, clown loaches).
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. :hi:

As mentioned, you are severely overstocked. My advice would be to return all of the fish and do a fishless cycle or at least return all but 2 or 3 of the more hardy ones and do a fish in cycle. If you don't you are definitely going to lose most of them as you will soon have massive ammonia and nitite problems. Even if you did get them through the cycle some how, you are still overstocked and have some pretty bad compatibility problems (bettas with gouramis and danios) along with fish that are not suitable for a tank that small (pleco, clown loaches).


Thanks for the advice , i knew the plecs would out grow the tank eventually, i am looking at getting a 240 ltr tank in the next month or so, but i have realised i'm still stupidly overstocked for now...the mollies have grown like 'I don't know what' within a week, the fish seem very at ease with each other atm, and have not read about any compatibility issues with the fish i have stocked so far ?

What are 'bettas' ?

Thanks again

Please excuse my ignorance

Stevie
 
Bettas are siamese fighting fish and they don't generally get along with a lot of different species such as gouramis as they are both surface breathers. Danios will also nip at their tales and cause problems. And of course, if either of the platys or mollies are female, you will have a LOT of fry soon. They have a new batch about every 28 days.

Do you have a test kit to test for ammonia (from fish waste and very toxic), nitrite (from processed ammonia and also very toxic), nitrate (end result of the nitogen cycle) and pH. If not and you decide to keep the fish, you will definitely need one ( get a liquid master kit and stay away from strips as they are terribly inaccurate) as your levels will soon (probably already are) be off the chart high and you will soon start losing fish to the toxins or diseases such as white spot, brought on by the stress of bad water conditions. Lots and lots of water changes are all hat will get you through the cycling prcess with fish as you have to keep the toxin levels low. I just don't know if you will be able to do it with that may fish (some such as the pleco and clowns are big waste producers) in such a small tank.
 
Holey mac that is a lot of fish for that tank but we all make mistakes. I would highly consider returning the fish and only keeping a few hardy ones. You don’t want to loose all those fish.

I would start by doing lots of water changes and feed extremely lightly for now until your tank is cycled. Just keep a fe hardy ones. And you do have compatibility problems.

Once your tank if fully cycled post again and we will help you choose fish that are compatible with each other and help you out so you don’t over stock again.
 
Holey mac that is a lot of fish for that tank but we all make mistakes. I would highly consider returning the fish and only keeping a few hardy ones. You don’t want to loose all those fish.

I would start by doing lots of water changes and feed extremely lightly for now until your tank is cycled. Just keep a fe hardy ones. And you do have compatibility problems.

Once your tank if fully cycled post again and we will help you choose fish that are compatible with each other and help you out so you don’t over stock again.

Thanks for all the advise, were going to be doing water changes twice a day till the levels are right, hopefully we'll get a bigger tank at the weekend and transfer the filter to the new tank, to keep the bacteria growing , will this work ?

I've been keeping a close eye on the fish, and today i think i can see the first signs of white spot :( a couple more questions if i can ?

I've added some Aqua salt as advised. i've also got some white spot treatment, i haven't added it yet, i wanted to know....if i have to take the carbon filter out is this not getting rid of all the good bacteria i'm trying to cultivate, or is there enough cultivating in other parts of the filter and tank ?

Also, it says the treatment says active for a few days so it works when the parasite hit free swimming stage, there are only a very few small white spots at the moment, should i leave treatment a day or so ?is there a danger that i could treat them TOO early, therefore the treatment wont be working at the right stage of the white spot cycle ?

Thanks again

Stevie
 
As said above you REALLy should take most those fish back. It doesn't matter whether you get a bigger tank it still wont be cycled. Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks. Also I highly recommend before buying so many fish you research all species so you get compatibility right e.g. your simese fighter can't live in a community tank and your sailfin plecos need a tank well over double the size you have now.

If you really care and want to get into the hobby and not kill a bunch of innocent animals i would either return the fish or find somewhere to home them until you have a bigger CYCLED tank.

I know it was a mistake but that is 1 big mistake and is going to result in a lot of deaths.

I know everyones going to have a go at me for being harsh but really before buying any animal you should do your research. You wouldn;t just rush out and buy a puppy without learning what it needs.

I hope you take this advice.

Good Luck, it's a fantastic hobby if you do it right.
 
As said above you REALLy should take most those fish back. It doesn't matter whether you get a bigger tank it still wont be cycled. Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks. Also I highly recommend before buying so many fish you research all species so you get compatibility right e.g. your simese fighter can't live in a community tank and your sailfin plecos need a tank well over double the size you have now.

If you really care and want to get into the hobby and not kill a bunch of innocent animals i would either return the fish or find somewhere to home them until you have a bigger CYCLED tank.

I know it was a mistake but that is 1 big mistake and is going to result in a lot of deaths.

I know everyones going to have a go at me for being harsh but really before buying any animal you should do your research. You wouldn;t just rush out and buy a puppy without learning what it needs.

I hope you take this advice.

Good Luck, it's a fantastic hobby if you do it right.


Thanks for you thoughts Lola

I did research, but it's hard when various resources conflict in the advice given, i was told a single SFF would be absolutely fine in a communal tank, and it has been no bother so far, the plecs were bought with a bigger tank in mind in the near future.

I didn't think the shop would be too happy with me taking diseased fish back ?

I don't feel you are being harsh, just, as i explained earlier i don't require anyone to give me a guilt trip, as i'm enduring one already
 
Just an idea, if you can't find alternative homes for the fish just yet if you post your location you may be able to get hold of some mature filter media from a forum member ....
 
Not guilt tripping just trying to give you advice and hoping you'll take it, I see your point about the diseased fish (and it's good to know that you do care about their well being). I still don't think there's anyway you will get your water parameters right with that many fish so maybe if you treat them and then return them or see if ur lfs will store them or something.

Sorry it's just so frustrating that people are constantly buying fish without being given any advice it's so unfair on the fish ur lfs should have told u how to look after them when u bought the tank. I guess the reality is that you will lose a lot of fish and now you have learned but it would be good if there was a way to save the fish you have!
 
Just an idea, if you can't find alternative homes for the fish just yet if you post your location you may be able to get hold of some mature filter media from a forum member ....


Thanks lakey

I'm in Yorkshire UK if anybody can help, this subject is yet another i haven't quite grasped yet, how would people have 'spare' filter media ? my thinking is if they take it out of there own filter they would be decreasing their own tanks defences ? and if it's left out of the filter, don't the bacteria start dying off immediately ?


One thing i definitely think we should of been made aware of is how often the mollies produce...they were bought from 'pets at home' a big chain over here, and no mention of this was made, nor had i read anywhere about it , as soon as we got em home there were 8 babies in with em, they unfortunately disappeared over a few days.

I have now treated the water with various things, as well as the white spot

The PH as down for now at 7.4

the ammonia is dropping for now, it was off the scale, now at inbetween 0.25-1.5, nitrite at 0.4 and nitrate still high at 80

Will keep you posted
 
You will definitely need to remove the carbon and yes, you will probably be removing some or most of your bacteria but you really have no choice. mMost of us don't use carbon but have another media such as Seachem Matrix or another ceramic type media. You should definitely start treating the white spot as soon as possible. The quicker you get it started, the fewer fish you will lose. The biggest problem though is that when you do water changes which will be required to keep the ammonia and nitrite low, you will also be diluting the medications. For that reason, you will probably be limited to one water change a day, just before you add the daily dose of meds. That being the case, you should do enough water changes before dosing the first time to get the ammonia and nitrite down to .25 ppm or lower so that you can hopefully get by with one WC a day. What are your current reading for ammonia and nitrite? Also, when treating for white spot, you will need to gradually raise the temp in the tank.

You mentioned adding salt to the tank. Most FW fish really don't need salt and some really can't tolerae it. Scaleless fish like clown loaches definitely don't tolerate it well as it burns their skin.

If you decide to upgrade, you really need at least a 55 gallon tank and preferable 75 for the fish you have. Moving the filter would indeed move the bacteria you have over buy would would still need a filter rated for the tank.

Edit: One thing I forgot to add. Although I'm not in favor of using chemicals other than dechlor, you need to get some Ammo-Lock or Prime to help detoxify the ammonia you have or will have.
 
You will definitely need to remove the carbon and yes, you will probably be removing some or most of your bacteria but you really have no choice. mMost of us don't use carbon but have another media such as Seachem Matrix or another ceramic type media. You should definitely start treating the white spot as soon as possible. The quicker you get it started, the fewer fish you will lose. The biggest problem though is that when you do water changes which will be required to keep the ammonia and nitrite low, you will also be diluting the medications. For that reason, you will probably be limited to one water change a day, just before you add the daily dose of meds. That being the case, you should do enough water changes before dosing the first time to get the ammonia and nitrite down to .25 ppm or lower so that you can hopefully get by with one WC a day. What are your current reading for ammonia and nitrite? Also, when treating for white spot, you will need to gradually raise the temp in the tank.

You mentioned adding salt to the tank. Most FW fish really don't need salt and some really can't tolerae it. Scaleless fish like clown loaches definitely don't tolerate it well as it burns their skin.

If you decide to upgrade, you really need at least a 55 gallon tank and preferable 75 for the fish you have. Moving the filter would indeed move the bacteria you have over buy would would still need a filter rated for the tank.

Edit: One thing I forgot to add. Although I'm not in favor of using chemicals other than dechlor, you need to get some Ammo-Lock or Prime to help detoxify the ammonia you have or will have.

Hi again rdd
Level readings in previous post.

This again is an example of the misinformation you receive, i was told to add a couple of tea spoons to my size talk to add the recover of white spot, I said I had plecs in and knew they didn't like the salt, and was told they would be fine with that amount, and that the mollies and platys would really benefit.



I ain't stupid, and have kept pond fish for years without any problems , i have researched before i bought, but obviously not enough
 
I definitely didn't mean it to sound as if I was saying you were stupid and you probably weren't inferring that I did (man it's hard to interpret the written word). In any case, I did see the readings as soon as I posted my reply (which I guess I was typing the same time you were). They are actually better than I expected considering the number of fish in the tank.

The salt may help with white spot but you will definitely need an antibiotic. The mollies will also like it as they actually prefer brackish water. Below is as good of an explanation of salt and how it affects FW fish as I have seen.

This question comes up quite a lot, and here's my same response every time. silverchild, I do hope you set aside and take the time to read through all this... there is some very good information in these links and texts I am going to post:

There are several good threads on salt going around, please read through these, they'll give you all the reasons against salt.

What Does Aquirium Salt Do
Aquarium Salt Dosing, safe for all my fish?
Salt Additions, How quick?
Does Salt Help With Fin Repair In Any Way?

and specifically I'll just take a quote from some of my older posts:

Primary freshwater fishes are those that have remained, as far as we can tell from the fossil record, in fresh waters throughout their evolutionary heritage. Fishes that fall into this category include Characins, Carps and Catfishes.

Secondary freshwater fishes are those that had marine ancestors at some point in past time, but which moved into freshwater in order to occupy various niches. Cichlids are an example of secondary freshwater fishes - their nearest relatives are the marine Damselfishes of the Family Pomacentridae, and it's highly likely that both Families shared a common (and marine) ancestor.

Consequently, the secondary freshwater fishes still have at least some degree of osmoregulatory capacity for dealing with salt in the water, while the primary freshwater fishes never evolved it in the first place. So, placing primary freshwater fishes into water containing salt is a bad idea, and even modest amounts will kill them. Secondary freshwater fishes, on the other hand, can tolerate small amounts of salt, and indeed some members of secondarily freshwater Families are brackish in nature - the Cichlid fish Etroplus suratensis springs to mind as one example. Cyprinodontiformes also fall into this category - both the egg-laying Cyprinodontidae and the live-bearing Poeciliidae are also secondarily freshwater, some of the latter Family being fully brackish in the wild (indeed, the Giant Sailfin Molly, Poecilia vivipara, is fully euryhaline, and can live in fully marine water, as specimens captured in seawater off the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico testify eloquently).

Quite simply put, if your aquarium contains any primary freshwater fishes, do NOT add salt, as those fishes will suffer considerable stress if exposed to salt, and may even die. Even in the case of secondarily freshwater fishes, salt is only a good idea if the fishes concerned are KNOWN to inhabit brackish waters in the wild.

Most fishes fall into the category of being stenohaline, namely, they are either freshwater or fully marine. These fishes should only be exposed to the kind of water in which they occur in the wild with respect to salt content. Euryhaline fishes, that can migrate with some degree of freedom between freshwater, brackish and fully marine environments, are much fewer in number, and tend to be conspicuous in this regard when encountered in the textbooks - fishes such as Scats, Monos, Therapon jarbua, velifera Mollies and one or two of the Puffer Fishes are notable for this. Within the euryhaline division, there are those that can migrate more or less at will, and those that do so developmentally - the Puffer Fish Tetraodon nigroviridis is developmentally euryhaline, spending its juvenile stages in freshwater before migrating at a steady pace to increasingly saline waters until, as adults, they are strongly brackish or fully marine fishes. Once again, and I cannot stress this enough, it pays to do the research and find out what your fish is!

The main point is that many fish evolved in an a very low-salt environment and do not have the physical mechanisms to handle salt. Will it kill them immediately... No. But, it puts a significant amount of additional stress on the fish, with all the additional problems extra stress lead to: increased susceptibility to disease, shorter lifespan, less color, less likely to spawn, etc. If you have fish that do have the capabilities to deal with salt, it won't be as bad -- though if everything is healthy and fine now, why the need for a change? But, if you have fish that are intolerant of salt, it will lead to problems down the road.
 

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