Rubber Lipped Pleco - Sudden Death

[stephen1965]

Hello,

Yesterday we added two rubber lip plecos to our community tank. Both seemed to settle quite quickly and got to work on the algae.

This evening I was just checking around and noticed one of the plecs in the corner at the bottom, but looking as if all the colour had gone from it. It wasn't quite white but certainly much lighter than the other. I called my wife in to ask what she thought and as we were looking the plec turned over and died.

Any thoughts and ideas welcome.

- Ammonia 0
- Nitrite 0
- Nitrate 1
- pH 6.5
- temp 26.5 C

River Reef 94 containing 3 male guppies, 6 black phantom tetras and 1 remaining rubber lip pleco.

The other plec seems OK and is still the right colour.

We have gravel substrate, a couple of plants including one on bogwood, and a smooth rock.

We are new at this, and have been stocking the tank slowly. We lost one of our guppies early on but put this down to a Nitrite spike. Only introduced the plecs once water quality had resumed. All fish have come from the same branch of Maidenhead Aquatics, whose service and advice has, so far, been excellent. All the other fish are behaving normally.

Did we buy a fish already sick? Did I do something wrong? Either way, I am sad about the loss and I have to explain it to my kids in the morning.

Grateful for any suggestions.

Thank you.

 

[KittyKat]

How did you introduce the fish?

How different is the water in your tank from that in the shop? (Maidenhead should be able to test your water and let you know what theirs is.)

How big are the plecos?

And how the hell do you keep your nitrate that low?

 

[stephen1965]

How did you introduce the fish?

How different is the water in your tank from that in the shop? (Maidenhead should be able to test your water and let you know what theirs is.)

How big are the plecos?

And how the hell do you keep your nitrate that low?

Hi - Thanks for the response. We are using a Fintro device to introduce the fish. Not sure if that's a common name for it but it's the plastic tray you put the new fish in with the water in which they travelled. The tray floats in the tank and slowly fills up with water from the tank and eventually sinks. We've used it for all our new fish with no problems. Takes about 40 minutes to sink and very gradually mixes the travel water with the tank water.

I did notice that one pleco was considerably more active than the other. We think the one that died was the more docile of the two. One jumped out of the Fintro as soon as it could, the other hung around for ages before moving to the rock. I will ask Maidenhead for their water stats tomorrow, but I am not sure how comparable their extensive shop set up would be with my home environment. I was wondering if water temp might be an issue.

The plecos are about 5cm.

The surviving pleco seems fine today - doing its thing. I've fed one tablet today. It will get some cucumber tomorrow. The guppies and tetras are still looking healthy.

Low nitrate? Honestly don't know. Suspect the filter is still maturing. I've been working hard on water quality - which makes the plec's passing even more disappointing.

Thanks for your interest, and grateful for any help.

 

[WILDER]

Whats your tap nitrate reading.
What test kits are you using.
Find ph at lfs to your tank.

How many gallons is the tank.
How many fish and which type.

Being pale can be stress, bacterial, parasites, ph shock.

Any signs of laboured breathing or gasping.
Any excess mucas on the body or gills.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
Did he look thin or bloated.

 

[stephen1965]

Whats your tap nitrate reading. 0
What test kits are you using. JBL droppers
Find ph at lfs to your tank. Will do.

How many gallons is the tank. 94 litres, say 80 litres usable volume
How many fish and which type. 3 male guppies. 6 black phantom tetras, 1 surviving rubber lip pleco.

Being pale can be stress, bacterial, parasites, ph shock. Noted. Of the two purchased at the same time this one was the more timid, but seemed to settle OK and both were feeding reasonably well.

Any signs of laboured breathing or gasping. No. Nor with the other fish.
Any excess mucas on the body or gills. No.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing. No.
Did he look thin or bloated. No. Just a pale version of his former self.

I've embedded my answers to your questions above. I think it's the sudden onset of the problem that troubles me most. Because the plecos were/are new I've been very attentive to them, and have checked on them often when I've been home. The fish that died appeared to be perfectly normal, and normal colour, no more than an hour before he died.

24 hours on from the Plec's death the other one added at the same time continues to look well and doing all things plec-ish. The rest of the tank looks happy enough. If it's an unlucky break then fair enough, but I just need to discover if there is something I could have done to increase his odds and learn from the experience.

Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[WILDER]

Could be been stress or a bacterial infection.

Keep a close eye on the other fish.
Do a few water changes on the main tank.

 

[stephen1965]

Could be been stress or a bacterial infection.

Keep a close eye on the other fish.
Do a few water changes on the main tank.

Will do. Thanks very much. Bests.

 

[KittyKat]

Hi - Thanks for the response. We are using a Fintro device to introduce the fish. Not sure if that's a common name for it but it's the plastic tray you put the new fish in with the water in which they travelled. The tray floats in the tank and slowly fills up with water from the tank and eventually sinks. We've used it for all our new fish with no problems. Takes about 40 minutes to sink and very gradually mixes the travel water with the tank water.

While in principle this is a good idea, I have my reservations about it.. I would normally argue that the process needs to happen slower (so over a few hours) and that it is good practice not to add water from a shop tank to your tank. I personally acclimatise in the bag and then catch the fish out to put into the tank instead of tipping in.

I did notice that one pleco was considerably more active than the other. We think the one that died was the more docile of the two. One jumped out of the Fintro as soon as it could, the other hung around for ages before moving to the rock. I will ask Maidenhead for their water stats tomorrow, but I am not sure how comparable their extensive shop set up would be with my home environment. I was wondering if water temp might be an issue.

Unlikely unless the water in the bag was under 15°C (this would cold to an average person) by the time you got home. If the bag felt just cool, then it was probably still over that.

The plecos are about 5cm.

So not that big yet. Be aware that they will probably get to around 20cm which is quite large, so you probably should not keep over one. Also, as with most plecos, it is good practice to provide a cave for them.

The surviving pleco seems fine today - doing its thing. I've fed one tablet today. It will get some cucumber tomorrow. The guppies and tetras are still looking healthy.

Courgette takes longer to go off, so I use that in preference to cucumbers. If you ever get the water starting to go milky/cloudy, immediately take out the offending vegetable, do a water change (no more then 50%) and clean out the filter. The remaining milkyness should disappear within 24 hours.

Low nitrate? Honestly don't know. Suspect the filter is still maturing. I've been working hard on water quality - which makes the plec's passing even more disappointing.

Normally nitrates are removed by plants and/or water changes. It is quite common for the reading to be anywhere between 25-50 in a stable tank, but not less, which is why I asked

I am having some concerns about what you said there: why is your filter still maturing? You should not be putting any fish in before the filter has finished maturing, let alone heavy polluters suck as plecos. And you mentioned water quality: what problems have you had with it?

I also have some additional questions which I thought of overnight:
Are there any hiding places for the plecos?
How big are the water changes which you do? and how often?
Are there any plants in the tank?

I suspect the pleco died because of stress due to moving and nothing more, but I do want to be sure.

 

[stephen1965]

Hi - Thanks for the response. We are using a Fintro device to introduce the fish. Not sure if that's a common name for it but it's the plastic tray you put the new fish in with the water in which they travelled. The tray floats in the tank and slowly fills up with water from the tank and eventually sinks. We've used it for all our new fish with no problems. Takes about 40 minutes to sink and very gradually mixes the travel water with the tank water.

While in principle this is a good idea, I have my reservations about it.. I would normally argue that the process needs to happen slower (so over a few hours) and that it is good practice not to add water from a shop tank to your tank. I personally acclimatise in the bag and then catch the fish out to put into the tank instead of tipping in.

** OK. That's a good tip. I guess Maidenhead took the opportunity to sell their Fintro product to a newbie! **

I did notice that one pleco was considerably more active than the other. We think the one that died was the more docile of the two. One jumped out of the Fintro as soon as it could, the other hung around for ages before moving to the rock. I will ask Maidenhead for their water stats tomorrow, but I am not sure how comparable their extensive shop set up would be with my home environment. I was wondering if water temp might be an issue.

Unlikely unless the water in the bag was under 15°C (this would cold to an average person) by the time you got home. If the bag felt just cool, then it was probably still over that.

** I also use a heat-retaining bag to transport the fish from shop to home. Also not very far to travel, so the water certainly would fall that low. **

The plecos are about 5cm.

So not that big yet. Be aware that they will probably get to around 20cm which is quite large, so you probably should not keep over one. Also, as with most plecos, it is good practice to provide a cave for them.

** I bought the rubber lips on the basis that they were the smallest. I will take your advice and not replace the one that died. There is a cave. **

The surviving pleco seems fine today - doing its thing. I've fed one tablet today. It will get some cucumber tomorrow. The guppies and tetras are still looking healthy.

Courgette takes longer to go off, so I use that in preference to cucumbers. If you ever get the water starting to go milky/cloudy, immediately take out the offending vegetable, do a water change (no more then 50%) and clean out the filter. The remaining milkyness should disappear within 24 hours.

** Noted. **

Low nitrate? Honestly don't know. Suspect the filter is still maturing. I've been working hard on water quality - which makes the plec's passing even more disappointing.

Normally nitrates are removed by plants and/or water changes. It is quite common for the reading to be anywhere between 25-50 in a stable tank, but not less, which is why I asked

I am having some concerns about what you said there: why is your filter still maturing? You should not be putting any fish in before the filter has finished maturing, let alone heavy polluters suck as plecos. And you mentioned water quality: what problems have you had with it?

** I should clarify. No fish went in until the filter was established. No fish have been added without first checking ammonia and nitrites - both of which were zero before the plecs were added. My comment about the nitrate level was just around the fact that I wondered if it took a while for nitrates to rise to the 20s in a relatively new set up. The only major problem we had was a nitrite spike about two weeks ago - sorted by daily 20% water changes - and now staying at zero in the last week. By "working hard" I mean I have used a decent test kit and regularly. **

I also have some additional questions which I thought of overnight:
Are there any hiding places for the plecos? ** Yes **
How big are the water changes which you do? and how often? ** 20% weekly or as required e.g. when the nitrite spike happened. **
Are there any plants in the tank? ** Three, - two in the substrate and one on bogwood. **

I suspect the pleco died because of stress due to moving and nothing more, but I do want to be sure.

Thanks for this. My responses embedded above. Bests.

 

[KittyKat]

While in principle this is a good idea, I have my reservations about it.. I would normally argue that the process needs to happen slower (so over a few hours) and that it is good practice not to add water from a shop tank to your tank. I personally acclimatise in the bag and then catch the fish out to put into the tank instead of tipping in.

OK. That's a good tip. I guess Maidenhead took the opportunity to sell their Fintro product to a newbie!

Well, they aren't completely useless.. For example, if they only let water in one way and would float at the top when full, then I would definitely get one myself! Also they aren't too bad if the water at Maidenhead is the same as in your tanks and all of theirs are free of disease.. and they would definitely be great for moving fish between tanks in your own home This obivously means you need to get another tank

Unlikely unless the water in the bag was under 15°C (this would cold to an average person) by the time you got home. If the bag felt just cool, then it was probably still over that.

I also use a heat-retaining bag to transport the fish from shop to home. Also not very far to travel, so the water certainly would fall that low.

Good thinking

I bought the rubber lips on the basis that they were the smallest. I will take your advice and not replace the one that died. There is a cave.

Bristlenoses are probably and a more common choice.. think about them if you ever have a bigger tank.

Low nitrate? Honestly don't know. Suspect the filter is still maturing. I've been working hard on water quality - which makes the plec's passing even more disappointing.

Normally nitrates are removed by plants and/or water changes. It is quite common for the reading to be anywhere between 25-50 in a stable tank, but not less, which is why I asked

I am having some concerns about what you said there: why is your filter still maturing? You should not be putting any fish in before the filter has finished maturing, let alone heavy polluters suck as plecos. And you mentioned water quality: what problems have you had with it?

I should clarify. No fish went in until the filter was established. No fish have been added without first checking ammonia and nitrites - both of which were zero before the plecs were added. My comment about the nitrate level was just around the fact that I wondered if it took a while for nitrates to rise to the 20s in a relatively new set up. The only major problem we had was a nitrite spike about two weeks ago - sorted by daily 20% water changes - and now staying at zero in the last week. By "working hard" I mean I have used a decent test kit and regularly.

Cool, very glad to hear it! Nitrates are a funny thing. I suspect that the plants are keeping them well down as your stocking is still relatively low.

How big are the water changes which you do? and how often?

20% weekly or as required e.g. when the nitrite spike happened.

Sounds as if you're doing everything well and it was just a freak problem. I hope this does not make you loose your confidence!

 

[stephen1965]

Thanks for the responses. I have talked to Maidenhead who offered to replace the Plec, although I declined - everything else is doing fine and I think a couple of weeks consolidation now before we add anything else.

Water tested again today and everything as it should be.

BTW the Fintro has a two-way operation: Any excess water from the transport bag is drained out first (not into the aquarium); then the device when placed in the aquarium allows aquarium water in - taking about 40 minutes to fill. It eventually sinks. I wouldn't use it if I wasn't sure about the quality of the transport water, and also it is best to stand and steady it rather than allow it to crash into the side of the tank as it fills.

I'm going to put this down to a one-off. It was well worth checking though.

Thanks again.