Rtbs

[nmonks]

I find this all rather sad really, and it's a shame that people with experiences to share with others don't go ahead and do so.

If you think someone is being rude, then a personal message would be one way to let them know without turning up the hostility level in public. Explain why you think that person is wrong. Stay cool, respect their opinions, and be polite. If you really think that person is being outright unpleasant to other members of a forum, then take it up with the moderator of the forum.

Sometimes, people don't mean to be mean or snobbish. There are differences in humour, especially. The rather dry, often sarcastic humour of the British is often misunderstood by Americans as being rude. Conversely, flippant, off-the-wall remarks by Americans often come across as irresponsible by the British. Emoticons can work wonderfully here... if you're saying something you want to be taken a joke, a sly aside, or whatever, sticking the right emoticon at the end of the line can make the point clear. That way, even if the other person doesn't think it funny, at least they don't think you are being offensive.

There is a lot of experience here on this forum, and I'd encourage anyone who's "lurking" to get involved and engaged.

Cheers, Neale

Good to know Im not the only person here who feels this way

 

[Garbage]

I find this all rather sad really, and it's a shame that people with experiences to share with others don't go ahead and do so.

If you think someone is being rude, then a personal message would be one way to let them know without turning up the hostility level in public. Explain why you think that person is wrong. Stay cool, respect their opinions, and be polite. If you really think that person is being outright unpleasant to other members of a forum, then take it up with the moderator of the forum.

Sometimes, people don't mean to be mean or snobbish. There are differences in humour, especially. The rather dry, often sarcastic humour of the British is often misunderstood by Americans as being rude. Conversely, flippant, off-the-wall remarks by Americans often come across as irresponsible by the British. Emoticons can work wonderfully here... if you're saying something you want to be taken a joke, a sly aside, or whatever, sticking the right emoticon at the end of the line can make the point clear. That way, even if the other person doesn't think it funny, at least they don't think you are being offensive.

There is a lot of experience here on this forum, and I'd encourage anyone who's "lurking" to get involved and engaged.

Cheers, Neale

Good to know Im not the only person here who feels this way

And if a number of mods are part of the problem from what Ive seen? Take someone like me for example, as a person who reads more than posts, If I were to create waves especially with the powers that be here I would just be labled a newb troublemaker or even a fish abuser because of my choice of community. Ive seen the same scenario played out here many times. And while this a great place for information, a place I come to often if I need advice on a particular subject, the hostility here also cannot be denied. Thus I am much more comfortable not sharing my experiences because of the backlash that would certainly come my way from the very high percentage of closeminded people that post or mod here. In a nutshell, I love it here, but its wise to also keep a low profile when your idea's dont jive with with the general concencess here.

 

[nmonks]

I still think this is sad. New points of view are important. I've been keeping fish for 20+ years, and even now learn that I am completely wrong about things, and have my mind changed about them. I still make stupid mistakes, sometimes resulting is fish deaths. We need to share our triumphs and failures, and through them figure out the best ways to keep fishes. Especially with groups like catfish, cichlids and oddballs where new species arrive every year, the fishkeeping hobby is doing groundbreaking stuff.

If you have problems with one of the moderators, then talk it over with them. Moderators do a lot of work for no real reward except a few extra pixels on the screen after their names. Many spend hours a day here, and as a result miss out on a lot of the fun. Some get insulting PMs, threats, and generally have to deal with conflict and unpleasantness. The one or two moderators I think I know reasonably well are genuinely decent people anxious to keep the users happy and the discussion to a high standard. I really can't imagine any moderator here would actively try to be unpleasant to other members, but if they are doing so without realising it, then perhaps PMing them and discussing things would be one way forward.

Cheers, Neale

And if a number of mods are part of the problem from what Ive seen? Take someone like me for example, as a person who reads more than posts, If I were to create waves especially with the powers that be here I would just be labled a newb troublemaker or even a fish abuser because of my choice of community. Ive seen the same scenario played out here many times. And while this a great place for information, a place I come to often if I need advice on a particular subject, the hostility here also cannot be denied. Thus I am much more comfortable not sharing my experiences because of the backlash that would certainly come my way from the very high percentage of closeminded people that post or mod here. In a nutshell, I love it here, but its wise to also keep a low profile when your idea's dont jive with with the general concencess here.

 

[beechey]

my rtbs dont like any other black fish......

he pics on my common pleco, and my keyhole when he turns a black colour, and he harrased my bgk to death

 

[t1tanrush]

Garbage, yep I'm with you. I've been told my ways of keeping fish are wrong and won't work. Turns out it works out etc. Heck, both my larger tanks are " against the grain ". Based on stocking, one would be frowned upon a ton just because the combination of fish in a small tank. People tend to jump to conclusions very quickly. Its a real pain for those of us who don't have a cookie cutter tank like most.

 

[Jozlyn]

My RTBS is the sole other fish in my Cichlid tank. Only things he wont kill. Does very well with them though.

What cichlids are in there? Does he get after them at times also?

Sorry for going OT, this is interesting to know.

Well to be honest with you, I am a frequent reader of these board but an infrequent poster. The Cichlids I keep togeather would be consitered unconventional by most, unfortunatly from what I have observed here is that many of the members are hostile, judgemental, and downright nasty toward others who keep fish togeather that are not usually or ordinarily kept in the same tank as accepted by mainstream. I have seen this many times here.Therefore while id like to discuss what I keep, Im reluctant to. I will say thogh that the RTBS can hold her own exceptionally well

Isn't that the truth, I've done a couple of posts and had my head bitten off!

 

[Garbage]

My RTBS is the sole other fish in my Cichlid tank. Only things he wont kill. Does very well with them though.

What cichlids are in there? Does he get after them at times also?

Sorry for going OT, this is interesting to know.

Well to be honest with you, I am a frequent reader of these board but an infrequent poster. The Cichlids I keep togeather would be consitered unconventional by most, unfortunatly from what I have observed here is that many of the members are hostile, judgemental, and downright nasty toward others who keep fish togeather that are not usually or ordinarily kept in the same tank as accepted by mainstream. I have seen this many times here.Therefore while id like to discuss what I keep, Im reluctant to. I will say thogh that the RTBS can hold her own exceptionally well

Isn't that the truth, I've done a couple of posts and had my head bitten off!

Dosent suprise me around here

 

[vinylman]

My RTBS is the sole other fish in my Cichlid tank. Only things he wont kill. Does very well with them though.

What cichlids are in there? Does he get after them at times also?

Sorry for going OT, this is interesting to know.

Well to be honest with you, I am a frequent reader of these board but an infrequent poster. The Cichlids I keep togeather would be consitered unconventional by most, unfortunatly from what I have observed here is that many of the members are hostile, judgemental, and downright nasty toward others who keep fish togeather that are not usually or ordinarily kept in the same tank as accepted by mainstream. I have seen this many times here.Therefore while id like to discuss what I keep, Im reluctant to. I will say thogh that the RTBS can hold her own exceptionally well

Isn't that the truth, I've done a couple of posts and had my head bitten off!

Dosent suprise me around here

That's a rather sweeping generalisation, isn't it?.

 

[nmonks]

This thread is both sad and misleading.

Look, if you find people rude, you have to tell them so or they'll never learn any better. If you find people disagree with you, but you know you're right, then argue your corner. Politely. If you can't convince them, or they have experiences to the contrary, then retire gracefully. Sometimes in life things like that will happen.

Moderators have a tough needle to thread. Of course there's variation in what "works" when keeping fish. We all improvise to some degree. But the moderators need to make sure that the information provided here is as consistently effective and reliable as possible. Some people keep neons and angelfish together and have no problems. But should that combination be recommended? Of course not -- to keep such fish together depends on luck as much as method. Wild angelfish eat wild neons, and if your angelfish gets hungry they may very well view neons in the tank with them as nothing other than food. Recommend keeping an angelfish with a bristlenose plec, and that's different, as time and again that combination has been found to work.

Another example: monos and scats are universally recommended as brackish water fish, and most people who keep them in freshwater get to watch them sicken and perhaps die. But once in a while, the fish lay eggs, something they almost never do otherwise. Is keeping them in freshwater the right way to keep them? Of course not, as 99 times out of a 100, doing that will cause problems. But the observation that sometimes the fish spawn in such conditions reveals something of their natural biology, i.e., that they may live in brackish or marine conditions, but they breed in freshwater.

Moderators have to try and allow everyone to voice their experiences while making sure that "dumb luck" solutions are identified as such and not recommended without warnings. My South American pufferfish have worked fine in a community tank, but others have had nothing but trouble, with nipped fins or worse. Should a moderator give my opinion more weight the someone else? Should a moderator ask me not to post my "high risk" option in favour of the tried-and-trusted option of keeping puffers in their own single-species tanks? Should moderators chime in on every thread giving their judgement at the end? At the end of the day, moderators have a difficult job, and you don't help them (teach them) to do it better if you don't explain why you're unhappy and articulate the options. Complaining from the corners may be therapeutic but it makes a lot more sense for everyone if you get involved and share your opinions, politely of course, but openly.

Cheers, Neale

 

[@ombomb]

Complaining from the corners may be therapeutic but it makes a lot more sense for everyone if you get involved and share your opinions, politely of course, but openly.

I completely agree.

There is a distinction I think to be made by some of the poeple who may be in the "fringe" of the site as some of the people in this thread are positioning themselves.

- Some who have unusual set ups which work, have researched what they're doing and have a good understanding of the consequences of what they are doing.

- Some who have picked random fish and haven't seen a problem yet, but having asked a question, listen to the advice they are given

- Some who have picked random fish and haven't seen a problem yet, but refuse to see that there could be an issue, ignore peoples advice and wade on towards disaster

- etc etc

There's nothing more frustration to me than someone who asks why their neons are disappering and their angels are getting fatter, but doesn't see why they should stop keeping the two together. Given that I assume most people find this forum when looking for information and adviced from people more experienced in the hobby, the number of poeple who simple ignore what advice they are given through blind ignorance is shocking.

Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, just giving another point of view. As Neale has said, the best way to solve any issue on a forum is to discuss it.

BTW - Neale - What is that picture you use as an avatar, can't see what it is and it's really bothering me for some reason.

 

[nmonks]

BTW - Neale - What is that picture you use as an avatar, can't see what it is and it's really bothering me for some reason.

I get a lot of people asking me that Question!

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry1264810

All will be revealed at the Hour of Scampering.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Kal-el]

While the subject was RTB, even though it got hijacked, and turned into a mud-slinging contest, I succesfully keep a full grown rainbow shark with a convict and jack dempsey with no problems.

 

[nmonks]

I think most people would say that combination would be more than possible. Paul Loiselle (a cichlid scientist) recommends "target fish" for use with mildly aggressive cichlids. He believes that a target fish focuses the cichlids on the "threat", strengthening the bond between them and disspating any tension. So you have better breeding pairs. In his Cichlid Aquarium book he recommends things like Labeo spp., just like your shark, as being big enough and tough enough to handle mild cichlids. I've certainly kept adult sucking loaches with Central American cichlids in a 200 gallon tank and had no problems at all.

Putting a red-tailed shark in a tank with gentle fishes, such as Apistogramma, on the other hand, would be much less sensible, as the shark would likely terrorise them it felt that its territory was under threat from the poor cichlids.

Cheers, Neale

While the subject was RTB, even though it got hijacked, and turned into a mud-slinging contest, I succesfully keep a full grown rainbow shark with a convict and jack dempsey with no problems.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

With the RTBS thing, here's my opinion on them (i've had mine for years now BTW, so have some experience with these fish);

a. RTBS are territorial and agressive fish, however the agressive aspect to their nature mostly stems from the territorial part of their nature. In the wild, RTBS are most agresssive and territorial towards each other, and will violently attack each other if one finds another on its territory, so for starters, you should never kept RTBS together in aquariums as 99% they will attack and kill each other. When juveniles, they are not so agressive, but as they mature, the agression will become a lot more apparent as the fish tries to stake out a territory in the tank.
b. In some ways they are not the brightest of fish- they will often view any fish that even slightly resembles another RTBS as a threat, so avoid keeping other shark shaped fish or ones with similar distinctive colours or markings with RTBS.
c. Give the fish lots of caves and hiding place and things in the tank- they will spend a fair amount of their time patrolling or hiding in such area's, and the more hiding spaces you give the fish and the larger the tank you keep it in, the less likely it is to be agressive and territorial towards other fish. They do not like to be kept in tanks with little or no hiding places, with the fish being forced to stay the open much of its time.
d. They can be kept with fish like livebeares such as guppys and platys, however much depends on on the other fishes colouring and patterning and the individual sharks temperment and the setup it is being kept in.
e. In lfs's, you may see RTBS being kept in large groups in their tanks, however this does not mean you should try the same in your own tank. RTBS are not very sociable fish, and keeping lots of them together will not lower agression levels between them like it does with other fish like tiger barbs. Keeping RTBS in large groups of their own kind will result in an awful lot of stress and deaths between them, particularly as they mature.
The reason why they appear to get along in lfs tanks is primarily due to the fact that they are not kept long enough together to establish any pecking order and have no territory to fight over, and so just sit in the tank stressed out not doing anything. Kept long enough in such a situation though, the agression will inevitably start.

If you choose the fish you keep with the shark very carefully and spend much care and time setting up the tanks habitat/decor, RTBS can turn out to be very enjoyable community fish. Although a lot depends on the individual sharks temperment, if you take risks with stocking this fish with less than desirable tankmates and the risks you take turn out for the worse, RTBS can turn out to be nasty little horrors of a fish, constantly chasing and harrasing and eventually killing other fish in the tank.

I would not advise a tank smaller than 3ft long/30gallons for an RTBS as these fish grow to a sizeable 5-6inches long on average and are quite active fish on the whole. The larger the tank you get the much better though IMHO- when i first got my RTBS it was adopted off a guy who kept it in a 25gal tank. When i first got it it was very agressive and territorial, always ready for a chase, but once it was moved to a much large 125galllon tank it became a lot more peaceful and started to keep itself to itself an aweful lot more. So at least in my experience, offering such a fish more space and better habitat/enviroment to live in is likely to result in a less agressive/territorial RTBS.

 

[SuperColey1]

I agree with NMonks and co here. I have (originally from pure lack of knowledge and research) the most incompatible tank going, in that I have a Betta in a 125LTR, with Danios and Tetras who are supposed to be non stop fin nippers, mollies who are supposed to be 'red rags' to the Betta.

None of this happens in my tank even though it is about 1.5 x the inch per gallon rule, and therefore when people ask about Bettas, I express that I don't have problems with this combination, making sure to point out that I wouldn't recommend it but that it can work. (I must add that I am heavily planted and this is the only way I could get away with this level of stocking without having dead fish floating by morning, either by ammonia/Nitrate poisoning or hostility)

With regard to the critisism, I don't find that there is too much bad mouthing on here, apart from when someone asks about a stocking list, and when advised that it isn't the ideal combination, the OP bangs back with the ' You're wrong and I'm right' response and then complains because he/she doesn't get the answer they were hoping for.

This then gets peoples backs up because if you ask for advice you have to be prepared for positive and negative opinions on the subject.

There are of course some trolls that fire these sort of threads, and these should be spotted early and ignored rather than have an ongoing slagging match.

I have been accused of hammering people's stocking a few times, and have also been slammed myself, but at the end of the day we all have different opinions and it is for the fishkeeper to use the advice given in the way that they see fit, wether it is to ignore it, consider it or implement it.

I have also been criticised once when commenting on the hunting instincts of my fish when my mollys had fry, when someone said I was sick for getting a thrill out of watching fish eat fish, when in fact it was the methods of stalking their prey that I was watching.

At the end of the day you can't please everybody as in this hobby there are so many different right ways and also so many wrong ways which can be considered vice versa by different people dependant on sooo many different variations including decor, hiding spots, planting, water acidity/alkalinity, temperature, personalities etc that any one tank will not have the exact same conditions as another and thereforeno one can say that that their combination is the 'correct' one.

Please feel free to make comments on why your stocking works for you, and share with us, so that those that may have a similar combo, and have problems might be able to learn something that they aren't doing that you do do, or adapt their decor etc and alleviate their problems a little.

Here endeth my little rant. Off work sick and a bit grumpy