dantheman1

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Hi all,

Finally cycled my tank! Took about 5 weeks but I'm now there.

Water in my area is very hard. Details follow:
113 mg/l as calcium
19.755 Clarke
15.82 German

I can purchase RO water from my LFS. What ratio tap water to RO water should I use if I want to keep Cardinal Tetra. I also need some advice as to how to lower pH. Is 'pH down' worth buying?

Lastly, in a 10 gallon tube shaped tank how many Cardinal Tetra can I keep?

Thanks in advance,
Dan
 
Adjusting pH will not be successful except in connection with lowering the GH and KH. The three are closely related.

The chemicals like "pH down" not only will not work long-term, they will cause immediate pH fluctuations that can be severe; pH affects fish but if it is stable the fish are better able to manage (within reason) whereas rapid fluctuations could kill them outright.

Part of the reason is the KH (Alkalinity). This carbonate hardness works to "buffer" pH, preventing it from fluctuating. So as an example, if you add pH Down and the pH within say an hour lowers from 8.0 to 7.0, the buffering capability due to the GH and primarily KH then kicks in and the pH goes back up to 8.0 over the next few hours. This back and forth is what seriously harms fish.

So reducing the GH and KH, as by adding "pure" water such as RO, distilled or sometimes rainwater, is the only safe method. Mixing RO and tap water will result in a proportional change. For example, half tap water and half RO will reduce the tap water GH and KH by half. So if the GH of the tap water is 15.82, say 16 dGH, half/half will result in 8 dGH water, with a similar reduction in the KH. The ph might lower some just from this, you will have to test it.

The above is as simple as I can put it, but there are other factors involved, or may be. I've never had to go down this road, thankfully, though I have had the opposite issue of having to increase GH/pH for certain fish over the years. That is much easier, in my view.

If you do decide on this approach, remember that water changes will be more work. The water will have to be adjusted outside the tank. Fortunately, with a 10g tank you are not dealing with enormous volumes of water, and a 50% water change is not as onerous as it would be for me with several tanks and large ones too. Emergency water changes may occur though, which means having a good supply of RO water on hand.

To your question about cardinal tetras in a 10g...what exactly is a "tube" tank? Did you mean "cube?" The shape is not that critical here (though the surface area of the water is important), as cardinals are not active swimming fish, so we can deal more directly with the volume. You want as many as you can manage, since this is a tight shoaling species; I wold not go below 7, and up to 9-10, though the tank dimensions might alter this once I know it. Live plants will help, even if just floating; and floating plants are important as cardinals do not appreciate overhead light, they have what some ichthyologists term a light phobia.

Byron.
 
Hello Byron,

Many thanks for your detailed reply. It is very helpful, so thank you.

I have attached a picture of the tank in question. It has a diameter of 40cm/15.75 inches and a height of 36.4cm/14.3 inches.

Would you recommend a certain GH for Cardinals? Some sites I've seen recommend no more than 4 dGH.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks,
Dan
 

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Tank is no problem fort cardinals, so that's solved. My previous suggestion for the number of fish remains.

If cardinals are wild caught, they cannot really adjust to moderately hard (or harder) water, meaning, not in the intended time period of a few days, weeks or even months. The reason is that their kidneys extract the calcium from the water that is continually entering their body by osmosis through every cell, and the calcium builds up and clogs the kidneys and tubes. The fish just die, there is no external indication until death. The lifespan is directly related to the level of mineral in the water, according to a study done in Germany and reported in TFH in the 1980's or 90's.

As for putting a number on this...the water they naturally live in is basically zero GH and KH, and the pH is below 5; cardinals have been collected in blackwaters like those of the Rio Negro system that have a pH between 3 and 4. I keep my soft water fish is similar conditions, because I have basically zero GH/KH in my tap water here, and the pH tends to lower naturally. I can buffer the pH a bit with my regular partial water changes so it doesn't get too low, but I don't really fuss over it as most of my fish are wild caught.

If you get the GH down to around 4, 5 or 6 dGH, you will probably not have much of a problem. However, if you can acquire tank-raised cardinals, you might have an even easier time. I know that Czech and German breeders have been raising cardinals for several years now, and apparently they tend to fare better in harder water than the wild, at least up to some point. I would think somewhere in London you should have retailers carrying tank-raised cardinals, so you could find one or more of them and discuss this aspect to see what they do. If they carry tank-raised fish that have been shown to be healthy (or relatively so) in whatever GH, you would have less water adjusting involved.

Byron.
 
This is invaluable advice. Thank you indeed.

I will look for a LFS that stocks tank-bred Cardinals and I think I will settle for 8 fish. Tank is fully fishless cycled, can I stock all 8 at once?

Many thanks again,

Dan
 
This is invaluable advice. Thank you indeed.

I will look for a LFS that stocks tank-bred Cardinals and I think I will settle for 8 fish. Tank is fully fishless cycled, can I stock all 8 at once?

Many thanks again,

Dan

Subject to your response to fluttermoth's question, yes. If you have live plants, floating, definitely yes. Shoaling fish should always be added together, the entire intended group. For one thing, they will settle in much faster, which avoids additional stress. Cardinals are not as hierarchical a species and some, but that is another issue solved by adding all together.
 
You should have no problems. Nitrifying bacteria do not die off when the initial ammonia is used, they go into what we can consider a sort of hibernation. Adding the fish will reactivate them. But live plants are even better, and as I suggested in the other thread, floating plants are highly advisable over cardinals.
 

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