Risk of not boiling river pebbles?

[jaylach]

Not now but more like spring time I'm thinking of tearing down my tank and replacing the gravel with river pebbles from the creek next to my apartments to replace the rather obnoxious current gravel.

I did this all the time with tanks I had in Ohio with never anything bad happening and I sort of liked the little minute critters that came along with the pebbles. Another advantage with river pebbles is that they are naturally smooth from water erosion so pretty safe for bottom feeders and allow me to use under gravel filtration.

So now my creek in Wyoming.. The only thing that really concerns me is that this is cattle country and there are some ranches some miles upstream from me. Especially with the ranches I'm a bit concerned about the potential of runoff from the cattle possibly contaminating the pebbles even though they are a few miles upstream at least.

I know that the safest route would be to boil the pebbles but I like some of the benefits of not doing so especially the itty bitty critters that catch a ride.

This is a very healthy creek with no industrial pollution as it is mountain fed and, basically, there is no polluting industry here except for the possibility of ranch runoff.

What do ya think? Would the risk be high or low?

 

[Uberhoust]

I personally feel the risk is low, but for the effort I usually dose my field collected substrates in bleach. My wife was a teacher and I used to collect planaria in the creeks in the Kootenays for her classes use, those creeks were clean enough that I would drink the water untreated. You wouldn't want to introduce planaria, or something else, in my tank.

 

[jaylach]

I personally feel the risk is low, but for the effort I usually dose my field collected substrates in bleach. My wife was a teacher and I used to collect planaria in the creeks in the Kootenays for her classes use, those creeks were clean enough that I would drink the water untreated. You wouldn't want to introduce planaria, or something else, in my tank.

Thanks for the input. To be honest my main concern is the potential for parasites but since I would be harvesting the substrate in the spring the water flow would be high from snow melt in the mountains and cold so I would think that would cut down the parasite risk.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thanks for the input. To be honest my main concern is the potential for parasites but since I would be harvesting the substrate in the spring the water flow would be high from snow melt in the mountains and cold so I would think that would cut down the parasite risk.

My main concern would be potential pollutants from ranching run off rather than parasites, but I'm not knowledgeable about ranch life over there or potential critters you could introduce either.

I do think it's an interesting idea, and probably relatively low risk? Why not try "quarantining" the stones by collecting them, then storing them in a container other than your tank, maybe a bucket outside or something, or a plastic tote indoors, and observing what kind of life you end up finding?

 

[jaylach]

My main concern would be potential pollutants from ranching run off rather than parasites, but I'm not knowledgeable about ranch life over there or potential critters you could introduce either.

I do think it's an interesting idea, and probably relatively low risk? Why not try "quarantining" the stones by collecting them, then storing them in a container other than your tank, maybe a bucket outside or something, or a plastic tote indoors, and observing what kind of life you end up finding?

The pollutants from ranch runoff are also a potential concern with not sterilizing the pebbles. There is an effect from the ranch runoff. People often do fishing in the creek for trout and catfish. The fish are totally fine for eating but there are reports that the meat is not as firm as from other similar waters without the ranch runoff. Considering that the creek water included with the substrate would only be in the area of probably 5% of the total tank water, if even that much as I would pour off most of the water from the bucket before putting in the tank, I tend to doubt it would present much of a problem especially with water changes after the introduction of the new substrate. It may even be as low as a quart or two of actual creek water introduced.

As to a quarantine on the creek substrate I doubt that I would even see possible parasites and, since I would find it difficult to properly handle the quarantine as to keeping the tiny critters going, it just isn't practical in a small to mid sized apartment.

 

[Uberhoust]

Why not play it safe, collect your substrate and simply put it in a 5 gallon bucket with a 20 to 1 bleach solution for a few days. To rinse the substrate just put about 2 quarts or litres into a norm bucket and rinse with a high water flow. I have probably treated more than 50 cubic feet of substrate that way over the years. Only lately have I started to use commercial substrates, collecting gravel is a lot of work but it can be fun too.

Spring in the Rockies is a time of high flows and hi turbidity, you may find you get more silt/contaminants if you collect in the spring. In the fall you may be able to collect the material dry, in the spring you may find the banks are filled with fast cold water.

Sounds like and interesting project let us know how it turns out.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The pollutants from ranch runoff are also a potential concern with not sterilizing the pebbles. There is an effect from the ranch runoff. People often do fishing in the creek for trout and catfish. The fish are totally fine for eating but there are reports that the meat is not as firm as from other similar waters without the ranch runoff. Considering that the creek water included with the substrate would only be in the area of probably 5% of the total tank water, if even that much as I would pour off most of the water from the bucket before putting in the tank, I tend to doubt it would present much of a problem especially with water changes after the introduction of the new substrate. It may even be as low as a quart or two of actual creek water introduced.

No worries, was only an idea! With the pollutant/ranch run off potential contamination, my concern wouldn't be so much any water that goes in with the stones, but any chemicals that may be on or absorbed into any porous stones that could leech out and pollute your tank or prove toxic when in a small contained tank of water, rather than in a running creek washing it away.

It's probably a low risk, but it's one to consider, is all. I don't know what pesticides, weedkillers, worming meds or growth hormones given to cattle that are then excreted and washed down into the soil and waterways. I'd probably boil them, myself, but then you don't get the seed shrimp or other micro critters you're hoping for. Has to a be personal call, really.

 

[Colin_T]

Wash or hose the rocks off and put them on a baking tray in the oven. Cook them at 100C (not sure what that is in F) for 30 minutes. turn the oven off and leave them in there for another 30 minutes and there won't be anything alive after that.

 

[jaylach]

Wash or hose the rocks off and put them on a baking tray in the oven. Cook them at 100C (not sure what that is in F) for 30 minutes. turn the oven off and leave them in there for another 30 minutes and there won't be anything alive after that.

You seem to miss the point. I don't want to kill the little wee beasties that naturally live in the river pebbles as they can be pretty cool and good for the tank. The stuff would not be 'rocks'. It would be natural river substrate composed of small water rounded pebbles.

I've done this before with very good results. My only concern is the possibility of runoff contaminates from horse and cattle ranches some miles upstream.

 

[Colin_T]

If you don't sterilise the sediment (I'm assuming this is what you want) there will be a risk of parasitic worms being in the sediment and infecting any fish that go into that tank.

 

[jaylach]

If you don't sterilise the sediment (I'm assuming this is what you want) there will be a risk of parasitic worms being in the sediment and infecting any fish that go into that tank.

Yes, I realize the risk of parasites but, since I would be harvesting the substrate in early spring, the water flow would be fast and very cold as it is fed by mountain snow melt. If I skim the river bed pebbles without going deep I think the risk of parasites to be minimal although still a risk.

Like I said before I have done this in the past with good results. In a fast flowing river my concern is more in relation with possible runoff from upstream cattle and horse ranches than parasites.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

If you're confident that the creek is free of bad beasties, I would just give them a good rinse to remove any excess "nutrients," then go for it. The only trouble you're going to face is that any rinse thorough enough to remove all the livestock excrement is also going to remove a lot of the good beasties.

 

[Magnum Man]

I have 2 thoughts… the area you are likely in, would be some of the lowest risk, particularly harvesting in the spring with mountain runoff…

However, the aquarium is a contained environment, so anything you add, can’t be washed on down stream, and if “they” reproduce, there may not be enough predation to control them

I would think for the most part, you’ll be ok… but I’ll use the example of a Cabelas aquarium, that they tried to stock with a variety of game fish ( finding the balance of fish is another story) however they were feeding wild caught minnows, that they sold for bait, over time they accumulated too many bad things, contained in the big aquarium, and all their fish had parasites

 

[jaylach]

Well thanks for all the input. Since this wouldn't be until spring I guess I have time to think about. I'm thinking of going ahead and boiling the pebbles and just adding a culture of fresh water scuds, the little ones. Hopefully by that time my cichlids will be re-homed and I'll have my Panda Garras. I doubt that the Pandas would mess much with the scuds and even tough my rope fish would eat them I doubt that he could get them all with how fast they breed. I've wanted scuds for a while anyway. In fact I've thought about setting up a 5 gallon tank for the beasties.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I like scuds a lot. I need to get up to the pond and get some before it freezes.