Research First

[guppymonkey]

I do appreciate the first poster coming back & apologizing for coming across so harsh. I know what you both are trying to say & it does suck that it happens so often but again, wrong board to be venting on.

I was trying to agree with you! I didn't mean to come off as being harsh. I am still quite new to fish keeping, especially intelligent fish keeping where I know what I am trying to do most of the time. What frustrates a lot of experienced fish keepers is that most people don't do any research into having a tank. If they vent their frustrations it probably should be on another board but they may have wanted newbies to read it so they could understand how experienced fish keepers feel.

 

[JessiMommy]

What frustrates a lot of experienced fish keepers is that most people don't do any research into having a tank. If they vent their frustrations it probably should be on another board but they may have wanted newbies to read it so they could understand how experienced fish keepers feel.

Believe me, I do know what you are trying to say but... by the time the newbies get here the damage has already been done. Why chase them off? So they can go make more mistakes? Why not educate them so no future mistakes are made by them. Then they can in turn educate those around them that may try to start up the hobby.

 

[cheirodon]

The intention of the original post is correct: Hey, everybody out there, DO SOME RESEARCH!! If you don't, innocent lives are at stake!!!

I have 2 different bits of advice IMHO.

First, for all who have some knowledge to share:
Let's encourage reseaching + sharing, let's make it fun, let's make researching as much fun as keeping fish!

Second, for Newbies and not:
It's very much like piloting an airplane: We are the Pilots-in-Command of our aquariums, and no matter what anybody says, in the end it's our responsibility, and ours alone. If we feel the Tower has given us a wrong order, be it a lfs, or a guru, or a book, we have the right/responsibility to act otherwise.

Which brings us back to the beggining: Good decisions are based on prompt + proper information. And this comes from Thorough Research, at the right time, which is usually before acting, and not after

In the time I've been here, I've enjoyed learning and sharing, and I believe my healthy aquarium is the consequence of this! It's like having two Hobbies!

 

[Nico]

Very condescending, Squimps! I, for one, DID my research which was promptly contradicted by LFS guy.
I guess all I can do is hope and pray that some day I`ll be as enlightened as you and not cop flak for looking for help on a "freindly" site!

 

[smb]

I can see how people can be upset about this and take offense but I honestly don't think Squimps meant anything bad at all. Looking at it from an objective pov, I think I would be offended also if I were to come here and ask questions when I knew I did my homework and I saw this. Like I said, I don't think Squimps meant the way that it looks. Maybe just worded it incorrectly and didn't allow for lfs error.

Some lfs's that I know of give terrible info whether it's to sell fish and they don't care or they just don't know the answers and try to "wing it." I think lfs's are more to blame than anyone. I have no doubt that the people that come here have done their homework and tried to learn as much as they can about their fish. It's probably how they found this forum in the first place...by looking for info to learn about their fish.

I know when I got my first tank I was totally dependant upon what my lfs told me/didn't tell me. I lost my whole tank of fish because I wasn't told about cycling a tank, cleaning it, changing water/gravel clean and on top of that they had me buy a ton of fish and put them all inside of this uncycled tank.

I'm glad we have beginners asking questions here. For one, this site wouldn't be needed and would get very boring and for two, I learn from the answers too. I learn a lot here everyday from all questions and answers, so I hope they keep coming.

 

[JessiMommy]

I can see how people can be upset about this and take offense but I honestly don't think Squimps meant anything bad at all.


I learn a lot here everyday from all questions and answers, so I hope they keep coming.

I don't think Squimps meant anything bad with the OP either ...now that I have calmed down. It did initially upset me. I too learn something new here all the time and hope that it continues. I would just hate to see any newbie scared away by reading this thread. When I came here looking for help I had tried several other places too. This board has by far been the best & only "real" help I could find.

 

[Squimps]

It's hard to choose words correctly sometimes, especially when you are so far away and other people cannot hear the tone of your voice or see the expressions on your face. In my haste to get out of the door to go to work the other day, I wrote the post quickly while I was still frustrated by the situation that I witnessed on another board. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty new to this particular site and most of you don't know me well enough to give me the benefit of the doubt when things could be interpreted in so many different ways. I've belonged to a couple of other boards for a while now and we are able to pretty much sling crud at each other without taking things too personally because we've known each other for quite some time. I certainly did not mean to sound condescending, elitist or like a total jerk but I was obviously not sensitive to many people here and once again I apologize. I hope that any newbies will not be pushed away to other sites as a result of anything that I do here and encourage all to keep visiting this board because it is one of the best general fish keeping sites that I've been able to find. If the mods here think that the original post should be deleted in order to keep that from happening, then I have no objection at all.

-Chip

 

[guppymonkey]

I still don't understand why newbies would be offended by this topic. I am a newbie myself and I totally agree with things that have been said. I came to this board with little experience with aquariums, I had a tank and fish and read a book (well skimmed a book, mostly looked at the pictures) and thought I knew how to have an aquarium. I thought it was like a swimming pool, you put chemicals in and add some water every once in awhile. At first after reading some topics here I was mad because it seemed like people were just being mean and telling me I was wrong. But then I quickly realized that I WAS WRONG and they weren't being mean but just trying to help. I think it can be this way with a lot of people. No one likes to be told they are wrong, and most people get offended when they are told. I don't think anyone intended to offend people with this topic. Like the board itself, people were just trying to educate.

 

[Alien Anna]

Very condescending, Squimps! I, for one, DID my research which was promptly contradicted by LFS guy.
I guess all I can do is hope and pray that some day I`ll be as enlightened as you and not cop flak for looking for help on a "freindly" site!

LFS guys can make a newbie feel like a complete idiot in seconds - and then of course you do as they say because your self-confidence has been knocked. Even now, I'm prone to that, unless I go in with very firm ideas about what I want.

One exception has been Monty at Tri-Mar who not only advises, and even criticises (in a gentle, humorous manner) but also explains the reasons for what he is saying and is not condescending. In the long-run, you'd go back to a guy like that.

 

[JessiMommy]

I still don't understand why newbies would be offended by this topic. I am a newbie myself and I totally agree with things that have been said. I came to this board with little experience with aquariums, I had a tank and fish and read a book (well skimmed a book, mostly looked at the pictures) and thought I knew how to have an aquarium. I thought it was like a swimming pool, you put chemicals in and add some water every once in awhile. At first after reading some topics here I was mad because it seemed like people were just being mean and telling me I was wrong. But then I quickly realized that I WAS WRONG and they weren't being mean but just trying to help. I think it can be this way with a lot of people. No one likes to be told they are wrong, and most people get offended when they are told. I don't think anyone intended to offend people with this topic. Like the board itself, people were just trying to educate.

Perhaps you cannot understand how the original post offended people but what difference does that make? I was offended. The OP has since apologized twice for the way he came across. He too realized that the way it was said or the way it was interperted offended some folks. Regardless of what he was trying to do some took it the wrong way.

NO ONE here is talking about people not liking to be told when they are wrong but you. When I was new and came here with my mistakes no one made me feel like a jerk because my research beforehand was not thorough. Instead I was welcomed and given wonderful tips and advice to make my situation better.

A few months later I stumble across this thread and for the first time here felt like I was being attacked. Yes, as I said when I originally posted here, "I made some boo-boo's"! I could have done more research but I naively thought the lfs knew their business. Alot of people make this mistake. My point this whole time was though it is aggrevating to see so many new posts here daily about some newbies mistake we can't chase them away with offensive posts. The damage has already been done. It's now time to help them. If the OP can realize that the way he came across was harsh & was taken wrong by a few people perhaps you too can get to that point?! This was simply a matter of how something was said. Not what was said.