Rescued Gourami From Work- Update!

[trianglekitty]

A year ago my department at work got a fish tank (I was very much against this from the start, as I knew they would not take care of them properly). This was a 5 gallon plastic tank meant for goldfish, which they overstocked with barbs and a dwarf gourami. This was just before I took a year long leave of absence. I returned to the job recently and found the gourami was the only survivor. His tank has not been cleaned in at least six months and is positively filthy. Half the water has evaporated, the tank reeks, and everything is covered in slime.

I confiscated the fish and moved him into my office. I've been researching how to properly care for the little guy, and it really is a mystery that he's managed to survive thus far. He didn't have a heater, and the office gets as low as 63 degrees overnight.

But the more I read, the more confused I'm becoming. I have a bunch of questions...

* I was told at the petstore that heating a cheap plastic tank can cause chemicals to leech out of the plastic and possibly kill the fish. I got him a new Top Fin 5 gallon starter tank (the one that comes with a filter and hood and everything), but now I can't find anything confirming that heating his original tank would be bad. I could swear I've heard this in the past though- is it true or was the petstore just scamming me into getting a new tank?
* Does he need aquarium salt? Some sites say yes, some say maybe, and some say it could irritate his gills.
* I know they can breathe from the top of the water- does a standard hood provide enough ventilation for this?
* If I wanted to add more fish, can he get along with guppies? Some sites say yes, they're very docile, others say he'll nip the guppies' fins. If I can't do guppies, what fish would be good, or is 5 gallons just too small to add even one or two others?
* I got an adjustable 25w heater, but when I feel the bottom of the unit it feels too hot and I'm worried it'll burn the fish if he touches it. I also have a heater made for smaller tanks that only heats the water up 4 degrees that I thought might be safer. Which is the better choice? The office he's in still gets down to about 66 at night.
* What is the best way to move him to the new tank? I haven't cleaned his yet because I'm worried the shock will kill him. Should I pour any of his old water into the new tank? Should I bag him and float him so he gets used to the higher temp? The new tank is set up and cycling.
* Going forward, how often do I need to do water changes? Some sites say every week, some say less often. From what I understand, I'm NOT supposed to remove the fish from the water while cleaning, is that correct? On the rare occasions they cleaned his tank, they put him in a fish bowl, dumped all his old water, and scrubbed everything, which I'm understanding is a very bad thing because it removes all the bacteria.

Please understand I've never actually owned a fish before. I'm just a sucker who can't stand to see any animal being mistreated. I've even made arrangements with my cousin who has several tanks to take him if I ever leave the job, just so he doesn't get neglected again, and I've forbidden the department to get any more tanks. I know I'm asking a ton of questions, but I really want to do right by this little guy to make up for the abuse he's suffered. Thanks so much for taking the time to read this!

 

[Doc7]

The new tank is set up and cycling.
[...]
Please understand I've never actually owned a fish before.

Sounds like you are really interested in doing the right thing and that is great but please keep in mind that in the context of fish tanks "cycling" refers to building up your ammonia and nitrIte eating bacteria which is necessary (along with regular water changes to remove nitrAtes and solids) to keep your fish happy and healthy; it doesn't sound like this is actually what you are doing with the new tank right now.

this sounds like a "fish emergency" so hopefully someone will chime in on what you need to do to rescue this guy.


edit: sounds like your cousin may be able to help you out by providing you with a "mature" (6 months in use) filter media to instantly give you the proper nitrogen cycle...

 

[trianglekitty]

The new tank is set up and cycling.
[...]
Please understand I've never actually owned a fish before.

Sounds like you are really interested in doing the right thing and that is great but please keep in mind that in the context of fish tanks "cycling" refers to building up your ammonia and nitrIte eating bacteria which is necessary along with regular water changes to remove nitrAtes to keep your fish happy and healthy; it doesn't sound like this is actually what you are doing with the new tank right now.

this sounds like a "fish emergency" so hopefully someone will chime in on what you need to do to rescue this guy.

I've only heard of cycling in reference to letting a new tank run for 48 hours before adding any fish. Is there something I should be doing to prep the tank other than just letting it run? I know you can buy "starter bacteria"- is that a good idea?

Again, so sorry for being so lost!

 

[Doc7]

The new tank is set up and cycling.
[...]
Please understand I've never actually owned a fish before.

Sounds like you are really interested in doing the right thing and that is great but please keep in mind that in the context of fish tanks "cycling" refers to building up your ammonia and nitrIte eating bacteria which is necessary along with regular water changes to remove nitrAtes to keep your fish happy and healthy; it doesn't sound like this is actually what you are doing with the new tank right now.

this sounds like a "fish emergency" so hopefully someone will chime in on what you need to do to rescue this guy.

I've only heard of cycling in reference to letting a new tank run for 48 hours before adding any fish. Is there something I should be doing to prep the tank other than just letting it run? I know you can buy "starter bacteria"- is that a good idea?

Again, so sorry for being so lost!

I'm just trying to get you on the right path please note that I have never actually completed any of what I'm writing myself as I am on my first tank. However I have put over 40 hours of reading into this forum over the last few weeks.

Please visit this thread:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

Read the links on cycling. read them all just to UNDERSTAND what's going on.

Then get advice from people here (SOON!) on using your cousin's media...Ask him if he has a sponge/filter media that is matured and can be added to your filter (or an upgraded filter such as an AquaClear which I find a MUCH MUCH better system than the Top Fin starter kit filter, which I purchased 5 weeks ago and upgraded within a number of days) - if you transport it properly you will be moving a bacteria population into your tank capable of cleaning ammonia waste generated by your fish and his food.


Did you add a dechlorinator (such as SeaChem or AquaSafe) to the tap water in the new tank to remove chlorine and chloramines?

also you will need an API freshwater master test kit. What did you do with the filter on the old tank? Is it still running in the dirty water? you may find that it has an effective bacteria colony with your test kit if you install it on the new tank.

Most people here say that starter bacteria is usually not effective and a fishless cycle (not an option in this case) is the best way to start. I myself started a "fish-in cycle" after getting that advice elsewhere, but have since found someone to adopt my fish and will be going to a fishless cycle starting tomorrow night.

 

[Doc7]

Also I just want to say one more thing...

I said this is my first tank but that's not really true, I had a betta that I kept with clean water (weekly changes) on an unfiltered tank for over 3 years. Very similar situation to you ... I knew nothing about cycling etc for that entire time.

A girl in a college sorority received him from her "Big Sister" as part of the welcoming process. "Little sister" didn't like fish but felt too guilty to flush him so she didn't feed him or clean his water. After multiple weeks of this, she told her lab partner (whom I was dating at the time) who immediately volunteered to take him...she cleaned him up, gave him to me as a present, and as a result I took care of and loved Ivar for several years, with help from my family on the feeding/cleaning process when I was on vacations / away for the weekend etc.

A "rescue" is EXTREMELY rewarding and please don't be daunted by what you read about starting off...the beginning is the hard part then it's gravy (i think!)

 

[trianglekitty]

Also I just want to say one more thing...

I said this is my first tank but that's not really true, I had a betta that I kept with clean water (weekly changes) on an unfiltered tank for over 3 years. Very similar situation to you ... I knew nothing about cycling etc for that entire time.

A girl in a college sorority received him from her "Big Sister" as part of the welcoming process. "Little sister" didn't like fish but felt too guilty to flush him so she didn't feed him or clean his water. After multiple weeks of this, she told her lab partner (whom I was dating at the time) who immediately volunteered to take him...she cleaned him up, gave him to me as a present, and as a result I took care of and loved Ivar for several years, with help from my family on the feeding/cleaning process when I was on vacations / away for the weekend etc.

A "rescue" is EXTREMELY rewarding and please don't be daunted by what you read about starting off...the beginning is the hard part then it's gravy (i think!)

Wow, that's a ton of information to read through! I will definitely ask my cousin if she has any filter media. I did unfortunately get rid of his old filter and put in a fresh one- didn't realize I shouldn't. I'm thinking it might be best to top off his water and leave him in the old tank until I get the new one properly set up with a fishless cycle- he's made it this long, and I would really hate to kill him the process of trying to save him! I'll get a test kit tomorrow. I did dechlorinate the water...that's about the only thing I knew to do.

I have to admit it does sound VERY complicated to set this up properly. Doing water changes every day while cycling at work is not going to be easy. I know there is no way they did this when they first set the tank up- they just filled it and threw the fish in.

If I have filter media, do I still need mess with ammonia and everything? The stickies I'm reading mention it being good to have a source of bacteria, but the instructions are assuming that you don't.

Thus far I've spent about 80 dollars on this fish that isn't mine- I really can't afford to go much further.

 

[Doc7]

Also I just want to say one more thing...

I said this is my first tank but that's not really true, I had a betta that I kept with clean water (weekly changes) on an unfiltered tank for over 3 years. Very similar situation to you ... I knew nothing about cycling etc for that entire time.

A girl in a college sorority received him from her "Big Sister" as part of the welcoming process. "Little sister" didn't like fish but felt too guilty to flush him so she didn't feed him or clean his water. After multiple weeks of this, she told her lab partner (whom I was dating at the time) who immediately volunteered to take him...she cleaned him up, gave him to me as a present, and as a result I took care of and loved Ivar for several years, with help from my family on the feeding/cleaning process when I was on vacations / away for the weekend etc.

A "rescue" is EXTREMELY rewarding and please don't be daunted by what you read about starting off...the beginning is the hard part then it's gravy (i think!)

Wow, that's a ton of information to read through! I will definitely ask my cousin if she has any filter media. I did unfortunately get rid of his old filter and put in a fresh one- didn't realize I shouldn't. I'm thinking it might be best to top off his water and leave him in the old tank until I get the new one properly set up with a fishless cycle- he's made it this long, and I would really hate to kill him the process of trying to save him! I'll get a test kit tomorrow. I did dechlorinate the water...that's about the only thing I knew to do.

I have to admit it does sound VERY complicated to set this up properly. Doing water changes every day while cycling at work is not going to be easy. I know there is no way they did this when they first set the tank up- they just filled it and threw the fish in.

If I have filter media, do I still need mess with ammonia and everything? The stickies I'm reading mention it being good to have a source of bacteria, but the instructions are assuming that you don't.

Thus far I've spent about 80 dollars on this fish that isn't mine- I really can't afford to go much further.

You have already bought everything I think you need besides the test kit. If you get filter media from your cousin (and transport it properly...in tank water, and shake it occasionally to keep it aerated) you will have a "cycled" tank - an established bacteria colony is what you need. The ammonia "feeds" the bacteria - but so does the waste your fish produces, excess food etc. Ammonia is used to feed a growing colony but you can use mature media and "feed" the bacteria with the gourami IF it is media that has been in use and the bacterial population is sizable enough to handle it.

What i've written there is just based on what i have read and not what i have actually accomplished on my own; still hoping someone expert chimes in here!


Also note that if you put a new filter, even into old water, that tank is now basically uncycled...so you have to manually keep the ammonia and nitrites under control in the one he's living in...it's not the tank/water, for the most part, it's the filter media that is essential.

 

[jameshunter63]

I think tbh as he has been so used to the bad condition he is pretty much a very hardy fish already. A few questions about the old set up.
Does it have gravel?
did it have a filter?
If it had gravel then there should be quite alot of the benificial bacteria in there, i would try to use this gravel without washing it in tap water. The tap water chlorine will kill off the bacteria. You could either use this gravel in the new tank or add it all in a new stocking and place it on the new gravel for it to seed the new gravel. This should then be left in the tank for a couple of weeks.
I would then add clean fresh water to the new tank, declorinated. Then let this settle overnight or a couple of days to get the temperature up.
Also if the mature media can be used i would get some, add to the filter and hopefully this amount of bacteria in the filter and gravel should give him a good head start.

You will then want to bag him up in the old tank and float him in the new one, slowly adding the new water to the bag over a course of a couple of hours. Then net him out the old bag and into the tank.

Hopefully with the mature media, hardyness of the fish and bacteria in the gravel it should be enough to give him a fighting chance.
I would also do 20% water changes daily as you will be in a sort of "fish in cycle" to make sure that spikes get handled easily.
Im taking that you are feeding him flake, during the process feed him a flake twice a day to minimise over polluting the tank in excess food and also also excreation.

Hope this helps, and also if i have said anything wrong please correct me.

james

 

[coldcazzie]

I think tbh as he has been so used to the bad condition he is pretty much a very hardy fish already. A few questions about the old set up.
Does it have gravel?
did it have a filter?
If it had gravel then there should be quite alot of the benificial bacteria in there, i would try to use this gravel without washing it in tap water. The tap water chlorine will kill off the bacteria. You could either use this gravel in the new tank or add it all in a new stocking and place it on the new gravel for it to seed the new gravel. This should then be left in the tank for a couple of weeks.
I would then add clean fresh water to the new tank, declorinated. Then let this settle overnight or a couple of days to get the temperature up.
Also if the mature media can be used i would get some, add to the filter and hopefully this amount of bacteria in the filter and gravel should give him a good head start.

You will then want to bag him up in the old tank and float him in the new one, slowly adding the new water to the bag over a course of a couple of hours. Then net him out the old bag and into the tank.

Hopefully with the mature media, hardyness of the fish and bacteria in the gravel it should be enough to give him a fighting chance.
I would also do 20% water changes daily as you will be in a sort of "fish in cycle" to make sure that spikes get handled easily.
Im taking that you are feeding him flake, during the process feed him a flake twice a day to minimise over polluting the tank in excess food and also also excreation.

Hope this helps, and also if i have said anything wrong please correct me.

james

There's actually very little bacteria in the gravel - 99% of it is in the filter.

I'd cut down feeding to about once every 3 days.

If you threw out the old filter and bought a new one, can you tell us what this filter is, and what stuff came in it? Some new filters come with something called zeolite in it, which removes the ammonia from the water. If this is what yours has then the filter manufacturers intend for you to replace it every few weeks (makes them lots of pennies!) - however, it would be better for you to remove it and fill the filter with some other kind of media (ideally some media from your cousin's filters). If you can get mature media then you will be pretty much sorted - it's unlikely that a single fish will produce more ammonia than the bacterial colony can handle as it's previously been in a tank with many fish - do you see what I mean?

In the mean time, it's difficult to say what to do for the best. If you were in a new-tank-fish-in-cycle then large (as in 90%+) daily water changes would be the thing to do to keep the ammonia and nitrite as low as possible. But the fish has been in the same water for a very long time, and you said the water level had dropped as well. This means the water he is in is probably very high in nitrates and other dissolved substances, so if you change a lot of water too fast it could well send him into shock as the water is so different. You could change a jug full of water every hour or so while you are in the office: take out a jug full of old water, and replace with a jug and a half of fresh dechlorinated water (note: it's easier to dechlorinate a big bucket of water than to do a tiny bit at a time - I usually have a bucket filled with dechlorinated water and just add a jug full when needed) - that way you're not only changing the water slowly, but also topping up the water and slowly diluting whatever dissolved substances are in there.

Is there no way you could take the fish home? Or are the other staff adamant that they want to keep him as a work fish?

 

[FishAreFriendsNotFood10]

can i just commend you on rescuing this fish and rewarding him with a clean new home hopefully things will all go good for you and he will survive this!

 

[trianglekitty]

Update on my rescue buddy...

Someone asked about taking him home- I really can't. It just isn't possible with my home situation and three awesome cats.

I was able to get a used filter from my cousin. As suggested here, I changed his water very slowly, adding a little more new water to his temp. housing bucket over the course of the day. I was super worried the shock of actual clean water would kill him right off the bat. He did fine, though, and is already looking much more lively and brighter in color.

On the advice of the petstore, I got him some live plants to nibble on. I didn't really want to do that because I thought it would make the water get dirty faster, but she said it would actually help with water quality. One question- do I remove the plants when I gravel vac? Do I need to keep them in water or can they survive a short time outside it?

I got a testing kit, and so far (three days in), the levels have stayed in an acceptable range, so I'm guessing my filter can handle him (not surprising, it came from a much, much larger tank). My filter uses bio bags and came with the tank. I did find out I have very hard water. I also saw in the store that they have little decal things that can tell you if the levels are dangerous - kind of like the stick on temp reader. I went with the API test strips because I thought the decals might not be as accurate- is this true?

I'm feeding Hikari flakes, but I'd like to start getting more fresh foods and worms into his diet. I'd also like to add a few more fish once he's settled in for a while. He's in a five gallon, so I thought maybe two guppies (he got along with other fish previously).

Thank you to everyone for your incredibly helpful advice! I almost certainly would have killed the poor thing without it. My total on fishy stuff is over a hundred bucks at this point, so he better live forever!

I do now have an "extra" tank (the tank he was in previously), which is a 4 gallon plastic tank. I tried to get one of the other office workers to use it for her betta (he's in a tiny half circle 1 gallon tank that actually screws into the wall- I have no idea how she cleans it), but she doesn't want to take up space on her desk. So operation "steal the betta" is now underway (more like nag her until she gives up the betta). I do still need to figure out if a plastic tank can be safely heated though, without releasing chemicals that might harm the fish. My extra heater doesn't have any settings- it only heats up the tank water 4 degrees. I figure that might be low enough to avoid the chemical issue, if it does actually exist. I know it isn't ideal for a betta, but it would be better than where he's at- he barely has room to move.

Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to help out! Richard the gourami thanks you as well!

 

[Doc7]

cool glad to hear he's alive and kicking

 

[Biulu]

Just leave the plants in when you gravel vac, and yes, the plants improve the water quality. The waste from left over food and fish excrements serves as nutrients for the plants, so your water gets less dirty and will have less nitrite and ammonia.

Good job!

5 Gallon is small and doesn't give you many possibilities fish wise. If you want to add something I would suggest endlers, nothing else as the micro rasboraras need to be in groups of at least 6 - 8 and that is out of bound for your set up.