After having my first tank up and running for a while I have learned some things I did not know before and I think I want to redo it. Some of these things include, that I may want to get rid of a rock to replace it with driftwood as the fish I have are never around rocks in the wild, and replacing my gravel and planted substrate with just planted substrate. Is there anyway I could do this without having anywhere to put the fish?
Redoing a Tank
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It depends on how long you think it will take. If you stop feeding the fish for a day or so, then move them into a large bucket/container while you rescape your tank, provided it's finished on a couple of hours, your fish should be fine. If you have a large enough container and your filter can run in the container without causing too much current, you will have a lot longer.
By not feeding the fish, they will create less waste and the water will stay safe for longer, in case you're wondering.
By not feeding the fish, they will create less waste and the water will stay safe for longer, in case you're wondering.
I have done this many times, most recently when I changed my 8 tanks over to sand from fine gravel, over the course of a couple years. It is best to remove the fish, as taking out the existing substrate will make quite a mess and being able to drain the tank completely is much easier.
I don't know the size of this tank, but not being rushed is a very valid point. You may decide to leave it overnight and come back to it in the morning. You want to do it right first go so you are not having to do it again, though replacing the substrate should be a one-time deal and this is the bulk of thee work. It may be worth getting a small 10g tank; a spare tank can come in handy anyway, aside from something like this. Then the heater and filter can go in the temp tank with the fish without worry; but watch the heater, in a smaller tank it can easily and rapidly overheat. I did this once years ago in a bucket and nearly cooked the poor fish. To answer your question, in a bucket without heater, depending upon the room temperature (the water in the bucket will cool down/warm up to the ambient room temperature without a heater) I would not leave the fish for more than a couple hours, if that. And you will need a cover; fish in buckets are notorious for jumping.
As to your substrate change, I do not know what specific plant substrate you have or intend, but most of these are best with a cap of sand. Some are very dangerous to fish, either from their composition or the roughness. And only today I was reading elsewhere about serious water chemistry issues from a plant substrate, ADA Amazonia. If fish are intended for the tank, and presumably they are, your plants may not benefit from a plant substrate anyway. Mine certainly did not (I used Seachem Flourite, and have read similar about Eco-Complete). I just have regular dark play sand in my tanks, and the plants are just as thriving, and I have no fish worries at all with this substrate. This is especially a concern for substrate fish like catfish, cories, loaches, but dwarf cichlids and others too.
Byron.
I don't know the size of this tank, but not being rushed is a very valid point. You may decide to leave it overnight and come back to it in the morning. You want to do it right first go so you are not having to do it again, though replacing the substrate should be a one-time deal and this is the bulk of thee work. It may be worth getting a small 10g tank; a spare tank can come in handy anyway, aside from something like this. Then the heater and filter can go in the temp tank with the fish without worry; but watch the heater, in a smaller tank it can easily and rapidly overheat. I did this once years ago in a bucket and nearly cooked the poor fish. To answer your question, in a bucket without heater, depending upon the room temperature (the water in the bucket will cool down/warm up to the ambient room temperature without a heater) I would not leave the fish for more than a couple hours, if that. And you will need a cover; fish in buckets are notorious for jumping.
As to your substrate change, I do not know what specific plant substrate you have or intend, but most of these are best with a cap of sand. Some are very dangerous to fish, either from their composition or the roughness. And only today I was reading elsewhere about serious water chemistry issues from a plant substrate, ADA Amazonia. If fish are intended for the tank, and presumably they are, your plants may not benefit from a plant substrate anyway. Mine certainly did not (I used Seachem Flourite, and have read similar about Eco-Complete). I just have regular dark play sand in my tanks, and the plants are just as thriving, and I have no fish worries at all with this substrate. This is especially a concern for substrate fish like catfish, cories, loaches, but dwarf cichlids and others too.
Byron.
Thanks for the info. I think I may be able to find a tank as I think my uncle has a extra 10 gal that he does not use currently that I can borrow. The information about the sand is interesting. It is something I will have to look into because it seems like plants would be just fine in it with added fertilizer. A few questions though about the sand:
How do you get plants to stay rooted? Right now I have trouble getting my plants to stay rooted in gravel.
This may be false but I have heard sometimes plants have trouble growing through sand that has been compacted. If this is true how do I help this?
How do you get plants to stay rooted? Right now I have trouble getting my plants to stay rooted in gravel.
This may be false but I have heard sometimes plants have trouble growing through sand that has been compacted. If this is true how do I help this?
What plant species? The only problem I have with this issue is a couple stands of micro sword (Lilaeopsis brasiliensis) which is very small and the cories kept uprooting it, but I solved that by using a couple of rounded river pebbles to hold the plants down. I may have more when I know the plants, and fish if they are part of this.
Any substrate will develop compacted areas in spots, such as under chunks of wood or rock. I had this with fine gravel as much as sand, but plants are not really growing in such areas anyway. For the rest of the substrate, this should not be a problem unless the substrate is too deep. I have about 3 inches in my deepest substrate tank, the 90 gallon, but this is not likely to ever be an issue in that tank as my loaches love to excavate tunnels. Most tanks have 2 inches overall. Anaerobic spots are part of a healthy substrate anyway, so the bits under the wood and rock are doing their thing.
I also have Malaysian Livebearing Snails in all my tanks, hundreds if not thousands. These burrow throughout the substrate, eating all the organic matter they find. Then there are plant roots that spread from larger plants and the oxygen they release through the roots helps keep the substrate aerobic.
True. I use substrate tabs (Flourish Tabs) next to the large swords and red tiger lotus. I also use Flourish Comprehensive Supplement though very minimally. These plus feeding the fish provide thee necessary nutrients, or have in my tanks. My lighting is moderate, if not low, so there is no need for much more and it will only feed algae.
I'll attach a photo of my 40g which has about 1 inch of play sand along the front, slightly more in the back but still no more than 1.75 to 2 inches overall depth before aquascaping. The pygmy chain swords are thriving.
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AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
+1 on sand substrate, although I'm using silica (pool filter) sand. Not all sands are created equal. The bad rep you heard was likely fine sand that readily packs and becomes anaerobic. As Byron mentioned, based on his suggestion, I also have Malaysian Trumpet Snails - started with a dozen and now have hundreds or more! As Byron mentioned, they burrow through the sand eating organic waste, leaving behind plant usable nutrients. Some don't seem to like snails but like worms in soil, I think the MTS are a cornerstone in a more natural aquarium environment. So the key to a good sand is particle size and you want a sand like pool filter or the coarser (Sacrete) Play Sand found at the big box store. Stay away from the sugar like fine sands.
Sand is the best for planted tanks. You can use a planted substrate as Byron said (I have flourite black sand) with a cap of pool filter or play sand with no worries. Root tabs and liquid fertilizers help plant growth but are not necessarily needed.
The trumpet snails are amazing. Very interesting creatures and they do indeed like to borrow into the substrate. I started with 2 I was lucky enough to find on a piece of seasoned driftwood and now I've got them in nearly all 8 of my tanks in less than a year.
I think you will find the spare 10gal a life safer but I've also used a large 15ish gallon storage tote when I was in a pinch due to a leaky tank. I kept the filter and heater going for a couple days along with all the plants, fish, and the light. No one was worse for ware when all was said and done.
The trumpet snails are amazing. Very interesting creatures and they do indeed like to borrow into the substrate. I started with 2 I was lucky enough to find on a piece of seasoned driftwood and now I've got them in nearly all 8 of my tanks in less than a year.
I think you will find the spare 10gal a life safer but I've also used a large 15ish gallon storage tote when I was in a pinch due to a leaky tank. I kept the filter and heater going for a couple days along with all the plants, fish, and the light. No one was worse for ware when all was said and done.
The plants have mostly been stem plants. I may have to try the rock thing because if my plants are going float up they do it right after I plant them before my fish can mess with them. Seems like with what everyone is saying it looks like I should go with the sand. I think I will pay a little more to get black sand as I think that will look better then just normal pool sand. I have also heard good things about trumpet snails, I am just scared to get into them as I am still only about half a year into fishkeeping and I am still working on not over feeding.
With stem plants, any so-called enriched plant substrate is a complete waste. Actually this applies to most all plants. All aquatic plants assimilate their nutrients from the water, via roots and leaves; if the nutrients do not dissolve into the water, the plants cannot take them up. It is simple enough to add nutrients via liquid fertilizer or substrate tabs; water circulates throughout the substrate, bringing the nutrients to the plant roots. Unless you are attempting a high-tech aquatic garden aquarium, as opposed to a fish aquarium that happens to have live plants, you are wasting your money using any "enriched" substrate. And then there are the risks to fish. These products are not all that "safe" as I understand the word.
Stem plants. You need to bury a good length of the cut ends of the stems in the substrate; 3-4 inches (8-10 cm) minimum should be buried. Some recommend removing the leaves along these ends, others leave them as added holding until the leaves naturally rot off. Roots will grow from the nodes along the buried ends and anchor the plant stems; some plants are better at this than others. As this is taking place, and especially If you have fish that may uproot these with their activity, placing a few smallish stones or rocks around the base should do the trick.
As for the sand...many use pool filter sand but if this is the normal white sand, it is not good for fish. Fish "expect" a dark substrate and white sand reflects light, making fish uneasy at best, and highly stressed at worst. And fish usually tend to be less colourful, due to the white. There was a black pool filter sand mentioned to me several years ago, but I don't know if this is available or not. I've only ever seen white, please avoid it.
Any sort of construction sand is very dangerous, as it is rough. Play Sand is the most refined of the regular sands. It usually comes in darkish tones; I have the dark grey mix, there is also a buff tone mix.
As for black, I had this when I experimented with Flourite. It was not very appealing. First, under the tank lighting and water it was more of a dull grey, certainly not black. And, it showed every speck of detritus, something I have never seen with either of my fine gravel or sand mixes.
Interesting info. I will have to think about what color I want to use now. I have black substrate in another tank but it is enriched and if it does not do anything don’t want to get it agian. In that tank I have seen how detritus is more visible on the black but to me it has not been unbearable. I have also not ran into the showing up grey problem. I might look around and see what I can find.
The colour largely depends upon your lighting. I use Daylight at 6500K, or in dual tube tanks I mix 6500K and 5000K. This is the best for true colour rendition of fish and plants (it is closest to mid-day sun), and plants have been shown to grow stronger under this spectrum. The play sand I use is dark grey dry, but under water in the tank it appears lighter, as you can see in that photo I posted earlier in this thread. If the black appeals to you, fine; it is certainly not a fish issue. I just didn't like it, my eye was continually drawn to the substrate.
As for the nutritive value of these substrates for plants, my test was with Flourite and I saw no difference. I used it because others recommended it as good for plants, so I thought I'd give it a try. It was in the 70g tank on its own, just black Flourite. The plants were not thriving, barely managing, and after questions here and there I was told that I had to use fertilizers just as I did with my regular gravel and sand substrates. Then there was the issue of the sharpness; I had to remove my cories, it made an incredible mess with their mouths; one panda even lost 1/3 of its mouth; they recovered in a sand substrate tank, and although this panda looks odd with only 2/3 of a mouth, he has recovered and thrived, and it is now 5 years since the problem. I had the Flourite tank running for two years, then decided it had been a total waste of money, so I tore it down and reset it with play sand. Plants bounced back and now four years later, are doing well. See photo attached [not the best, I have an old cheap digital camera].
I cannot say all plant substrates as this useless, but I have heard that Eco-Complete is the same (on both counts). And I have read of water chemistry problems with ADA soils. Given all the risks and issues, it just isn't worth it; and these things are incredibly expensive. I spent $180 for the Flourite for the 70g, and a mere $14 for the sand to replace it. And the fish and plants are better now than they were.
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AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
Byron, I have had a pool with a sand filter for many years and replaced the sand a few times and I have never seen white silica (pool filter) sand. Maybe it's only in Canada?! The silica sand I've used for the pool and my tank is well, sandy (call it light brown) colored and looks just like the color of the big box store play sand. From time to time I hear a lot of people talking up black (blasting) sand, but I'm not sure that would look very natural???
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I've only seen the white pool filter sand. Buff would be better, agree. You can also darken the substrate further by using lots of dark wood (or rock), and dried leaves. This however is not very successful with pure white sand, as it is so bright it reflects the light even from very small areas.
Blasting sand is not safe for fish because it is rough/sharp. Paving sand is similar. These construction sands are intentionally left unrefined (rough/sharp edged) as they bind better and "blast" better. Play sand is the only fully-refined sand of the basic sands. Specific aquarium sand is obviously refined, but also extremely expensive. And some of the coloured ones may leech, though this is more likely with coloured gravels I suppose.
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