Redness

[Clbrtwewill]

Came home from college to find a bad algae bloom in one of my tanks. I followed directions for bleaching, soaking, rinsing and moved inhabitants temporarily to the other tank. Rinsed the tank a few extra times, let it dry, as I wanted to make sure the bleach was out. I did it with a garden hose outside. I was told today in a livestock supply store that I shouldn't do that because chemicals might be off with water coming from a hose.

So I had saved the water from the tank, put a new (also *RINSED*) bed of gravel down, added the water, filled it, let it sit overnight with the filter (it's cycled) running. Then, yesterday morning, I added scrubbed plants (only with water) back to the tank, added a few of the smaller fish for a few hours to make sure they would fare alright. They were fine, I added the rest of the fish that go in this tank.

I woke up this morning to find a black skirt tetra, bloody, dead and what appeared to be hollowed, stuck to the filter intake. The other black skirt tetra was really dark and ragged looking - like it might dissolve. The eyes looked really cloudy, like there was some kind of film over them. Underneath, its gills were completely red and he was not breathing much; I moved it to a hospital tank and the tetra is dead now.

Some of the other fish have red at the base of their fins; the opaline gourami in the tank actually has bloody fins and some red under his mouth. This is all really new as well as unusual.

Any help please? I have a slew of medications (but cannot get Maracyn-1 or Maracyn-2 as they have been discontinued around where I live) and no idea where to start here in terms of diagnosis. Original reading made me think columnaris (due to the cloudy white eyes), an online search for "bloody fins" brought me to septicemia.

 

[Clbrtwewill]

No response... I could really use some input here?

No change overnight; I redosed with melafix this morning as there have been no changes. The gourami has red pectoral fins though, imagine that has got to be pretty sore. Does this sound like septicemia? should i change water out and add maracyn plus instead?

 

[WILDER]

You have a bad case of septicemia.
Was the bleeding beneath the skin.

When you use a hose pipe just run it for a few minutes to make sure everything cleaned out.

Cloudy eye is a symtom of a desease not a desease in its own right.
Causes.
Stress.
Irratation.
Old age.
Injury.
Bad diet.
Parasites.
Bacterial.


Add the maracyn plus to the tank.

Any signs of excess mucas, darting, laboured breathing fish turning upside down.. These are signs of toxins in the tank.

Septicemia hard to cure once it progresses.


Septicemia



Symptoms:

Fish may have reddening at fin bases, blood streaks throughout the fins and body, small hemorrhages around the eyes. Dull listless behavior and lack of appetite may also be present.



Cause:

Systemic bacterial infection caused by various bacteria, including Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio. The illness is often brought on by poor water quality or as a result of parasitic infestations or other infections. These bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage cause hemorrhaging and consequently leakage of body fluids into the abdomen, which may lead to Dropsy.



Treatment:

Water conditions must be improved for all fish in the tank, regardless of how many fish are infected. Check your water’s Treat with Kanacyn or Tetracycline as well as with a medicated food if the fish will eat. If parasites are suspected, all the fish in the tank should be treated with antiparasitic medication. Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.

 

[Clbrtwewill]

You have a bad case of septicemia.
Was the bleeding beneath the skin.

When you use a hose pipe just run it for a few minutes to make sure everything cleaned out.

Cloudy eye is a symtom of a desease not a desease in its own right.
Causes.
Stress.
Irratation.
Old age.
Injury.
Bad diet.
Parasites.
Bacterial.


Add the maracyn plus to the tank.

Any signs of excess mucas, darting, laboured breathing fish turning upside down.. These are signs of toxins in the tank.

Septicemia hard to cure once it progresses.

The bleeding is beneath the skin. Can I add the maracyn plus to the tank if melafix is already present, or should I do a water change, how much water recommended for that?

Thank you Wilder =)

 

[WILDER]

I would just do a 30% water change and add the maracyn plus.
You can use melafix with bacterial meds. it called in and out. Melafix the eternal med, maracyn plus is the internal med.

 

[Clbrtwewill]

I've done that now (the water change & added medication). The light's been off in the tank, and I'm noticing that some of the fish appear to have clear/grey patches hanging from their bodies as well. If this was a problem with the hose I used or problem with the bleach, I know at least to be even more thorough next time.

Do you think there's a good possibility of clearing the septicemia or at least not wiping out the entire tank? I'm not sure to be hopeful or thinking worst case scenario here, unfortunately. It could be stress and water-related, as far as I can tell, but should I be concerned about the fish in the other tank?

 

[WILDER]

The bacteria can leak from the fish entering the tank and then infecting others.
Its really best to issolate sick fish to a hosptial tank and then treat there. Then you just preform some daily water changes on main tank.
Steralise all equipment after use so you don't spread it to another tank. Also wash your hands.

Any signs of darting or laboured breathing, gasping at surface of tank.
Grey patches can mean a number of things like columnaris, parasites, etc.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

 

[Clbrtwewill]

Any signs of darting or laboured breathing, gasping at surface of tank. No, they're breathing fine - I've kept an eye on them when home.
Grey patches can mean a number of things like columnaris, parasites, etc. One fish has a white patch on its mouth now.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing. Nothing I've observed.

I'm on my third day of treating with the Maracyn plus; the gourami still has blood in its fins & bases of the fins and is a pinkish color (moreso than normal). The one with the white patch on its mouth also has some red around the base of one of its pectoral fins but not the others.

Fish are eating flake food again and are not lurking at the bottom of the tank.

 

[WILDER]

White mouth is columnaris, does it look fluffy or just bleached out.
Grey patches on fish can also be columnaris.
Pink edging to fins can be bacterial finrot.
You have a severe bacterial infection in your tank.

http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[Clbrtwewill]

White mouth is columnaris, does it look fluffy or just bleached out.
Grey patches on fish can also be columnaris.
Pink edging to fins can be bacterial finrot.
You have a severe bacterial infection in your tank.

[URL="http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm"]http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm[/URL]

I read that and it indicates I should continue to use the Maracyn to treat these problems. The mouth had a fluffy white patch on it. It's gone now but will still keep treating with Maracyn/Melafix - the gourami still has red on his fins and face. The fins do not have pink edging. I think that the blood on the gourami's fins is under the surface.

 

[WILDER]

Septicemia very hard to cure once it progess.
You might lose quite a few fish before things settle back down.
Just going to check on the maracyn plus med.

Dosn't mention septicemia on the list it's meant to treat.

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...cfm?pcatid=4833

 

[Clbrtwewill]

So...is there something else I have ought to try then? I thought that Maracyn plus was a combination of maracyn 1 and 2, which were what was suggested previously for this treatment?

 

[WILDER]

I did too.

I would get maracyn one and two and get the other med out of the tank.
There tetracycline but it wipes the beneifcal bacteria out in the filter.

Its very hard to cure septicemia.

I would get the med out of the tank and swtich to maracyn one and two to cover all bases.

 

[WILDER]

Maracyn
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for gram-positive bacterial infections. For infections of columnaris (body fungus), fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, and secondary infections.
Active ingredient: Erythromycin.


Maracyn–Two
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for internal or external gram negative bacterial infections which can even be absorbed through the skin. Effective treatment of fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, dropsy (swollen body, protruding scales), septicemia (bleeding or red streaks on the body), secondary and internal infections. Effective even when fish won't eat.
Active ingredient: Mincycline hydrochlor.

 

[Clbrtwewill]

I did a good search for "Maracyn plus septicemia" and came up with these links:

http/store.everythingreptileinc.com/60100.html
http/comfortfirst.com/p-72875-maracyn-pl...ntbacteria.aspx

It might be possible that the link you sent just didn't mention septicemia for the list of infections it treats. Do you think I should still get it out of the tank? I'm not able to get Maracyn 1/2 separately as they have been discontinued from stores where I live.