Real Puzzler

Scrappaman

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Hi all,

I’m a newbie to the forums and I’ve only been keeping fish about a year now. The two fish I have now are my third and fourth fish, as the last two had a nasty incident with a filter in the last tank ïŒ. Both of these fish were in the previous tank (on their own, following the death of the first two fish) and that is where the high nitrite level first developed. I was unable to get rid of the high nitrite level for about a month, so, on the advice of the local aquatics shop, bought a new tank to hopefully sort things.
I purchased the new tank and took all the water from the previous tank (it was 25L, this is 54L) put it into the new tank, gradually added more fresh water over days in the hope that it’d sort it out.
However, the high nitrite level (2.0 ppm) has still not reduced at all. It has now been 3 months of high nitrite all in all. I, as well as many of the people I have spoken to, am amazed that the fish have survived this long. It is only in the past fortnight that the fish have began gasping for air at the surface. The extra aeration I’ve provided does seem to have helped though.

All other levels appear to be as they should be, in accordance with the API Master Test Kit I’ve been using. It’s only the nitrite that seems to be the problem.

I appreciate that there’s a whole lot to read in this post and I can only assure you that any help and effort will be greatly appreciated. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read all this!

One very worried fish-friend,

Matt


The Tank

Tank: Juwel ‘Rekord 60’ (54L real capacity)
Fish: 1 x Blackmoor; 1 x Redcap (Both around 1 inch or less in length)
Filter: Standard Juwel black box filter, situated in corner of aquarium. Contains four filtration media: 1x pre-filter wool; 1x black carbon sponge; 1x nitrate removal sponge; 1 x ‘fine’ sponge.
Filter maintenance: Following Juwel guidelines I replace the pre-filter wool once a week and the black carbon sponge once a month. The other sponges need replacing every 3 months, and the tank is only 2 months old.
Cleaning and water changes: 1 x 20% water change a week. To clean I use the siphon suction er.. thing, to move the gravel around a bit and suck as much dirt up as I can.
Water conditioning: I use API ‘Stress Coat’ to condition the water.
Note: there are currently no ornaments and only one layer of gravel that just about covers the bottom of the tank, so as to avoid waste piling up.

The Problem

Symptoms: Fish often spend lengthy periods of time hanging at the surface of the water, apparently gasping for air. The breathing is rapid yet does not appear to be laboured.
Supposed problem: Having consulted several aquatics shops, and given the high nitrite levels I have detected, it has been suggested that it could be nitrite poisoning.
Measures taken: In the way of general maintenance I’ve cut down on feeding (I’ve always fed them 2 flakes each and 3 dried blood worm each every other day, it is not once every 3 days), started doing 2 x 25% water changes a week, provided optimum aeration in the form of an air stone and oxygen tablets.
In the way of treatments I have begun using API ‘Stress Zyme’ to speed up the establishment of the biological filter (apparently that’s its use?) and hopefully fight back the nitrite. I’ve also started using something called a ‘Nitra-zorb’ which is a teabag-like filter medium that sits in the water flow in the filter and supposedly removes nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia.
 
The tank is way to small for all them goldfish the first goldfish alone need 20 gallon, then every 10 gallons for another goldfsih added, so you need at least 50 gallons tank as they are massive waste producers, and need excellent filters.

The answer is rehome them or get a tank big enough for them.
Look under ammonia and nitrite poisoning.
I've kept fancy goldfish 2 in a 40 gallon tank they need it massive waste produers.
http://www.fishtanksandponds.info/care-mai...ealth/index.htm
 
So that's around a 200 Litre tank for just the two baby fantails? When I say an inch in length, i mean they're like 1cm in height, they're really very small. I'll do my best to get some pictures of the whole setting up tomorrow.

As I said i'm a newbie and I have great respect for the knowledge of anyone on here, especially those who do their best to help me. So the fact that you've replied is greatly appreciated, thankyou.
I'm just confused as the lfs had told me that this was more than big enough for the fish, as they are just 'babies'. 200 Litres is a staggeringly large tank from the tanks I've been around, I mean I've seen some 1000 Litre tanks which are just sensational, but 200 Litres is a very big tank nonetheless.

I'm a student and obviously money is tight, but I absolutely adore these fish and nothing relaxes me more than sitting by the tank taking in their behaviour and so forth, so i'll unquestionably do whatever is needed to solve this problem. But wow, that is a whole lot of tank we're talking about!

I'm no good with conversions and so forth, but we're talking a 200 litre tank? That's going to be around 200 pounds if I've got my facts right?

If anyone can further the discussion on tanks and help me out as to what size I do need to be going for in Litres (I'm but a mere English simpleton ;-)) I'd be very thankful.

Again, thankyou for the advice. It's appreciated.
 
So you only have to fantails now, that means you should be aiming for a least a 30 gallon tank.
Excellent filter I had to run two in a 40 gallon with only two fancy goldfish.
Your water stats are telling you that the filter and size of the tank is not adequate for them fish.
If you don't sort things out fast sad to say the fish will die through ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

I would preform a water change now.

http://www.fishforums.net/Gold-fish-in-tanks-t43980.html

Do your own research you are a student lol.
Don't believe everything the lfs tells you.
 
Symptoms: Fish often spend lengthy periods of time hanging at the surface of the water, apparently gasping for air. The breathing is rapid yet does not appear to be laboured.

Add an airstone to your tank! This will greatly help with increasing the oxygen in your tank. Your oxygen levels are low according to your fish.

~ Also as your LFS said don't believe everything your lfs says. A lot of them just want you to spend more money at their store.

~ You could fit about your 2 fantails in a nice 40 gallon aquarium. That would be a like 151Litre tank. That way they would have plenty of room to swim around once they get bigger.

~ Currently I have a 55 gallon aquarium with one fantial and soon to be adding another once he gets bigger because he is just a baby. Goldfish grow quicker when they have more room and depending how much food they get fed.

I'll also try to find you some great sites to help you in your research. Off hand here is a site....

www.kokos goldfish.com

NOTE: you need to remove the space between kokos & goldfish...this is a great site!

Best of Luck!! :thumbs:
 
I agree with the others advice, the goldfish will need a bigger tank as they grow (fancy goldfish such as yours can grow to 6-8inches long, so are large growing fish). With tank prices, try seeing if you can pick up anything second hand as that way you will be able to get a dramatically cheaper tank in comparison to buying a brand new one (most second hand tanks are half price or less than half price) :thumbs: .

For now though, i would add an extra filter to the tank as this will help deal with the waste the goldfish are producing and help lower the nitrite levels- adding an air stone/bubble pump thing will help make the goldfish feel more comfortable and ease their stress in with the nitrites. How regularly are you cleaning out the filter and how are you going about it at the moment?
 
Adding aquarium safe salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) will keep them from suffering nitrite poisoning. It's not the answer to bad water but it will at least help while you are doing other things to get your water quality in check.
 
Adding aquarium safe salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) will keep them from suffering nitrite poisoning. It's not the answer to bad water but it will at least help while you are doing other things to get your water quality in check.

Some fish are tolerant of salt while others are not, its best not to use salt unless you are positive that your fish can handle it as salt can be lethal or very bad for a lot of freshwater and coldwater fish.
 
Thankyou to everyone who has replied, your help is greatly appreciated :good:

I'm truly staggered, and sort of offended. Staggered at both my lack of knowledge about this and that such teeny tiny fish would need such a large tank. I'm offended in the sense that the LFS knew what fish I had and still told me this aquarium of only 54 litres would be more than enough.

Needless to say I'm not going there again. I do now begin to understand the root of my problems, and very much appreciate the help of everyone who has posted.

I've spent the day working out finances and student loan possibilities (books? wassat?) and have decided that dependent upon whether my car needs 300 pounds worth of work done on it on Tuesday, I will go from there. If it does not need the work, I will head out and grab a new aquarium. If it does need the work, I could never afford any new tank and will seek a new home for them on the forums. They really are great little fish, ridiculously friendly and curious, and I would hate to let them go but could never take them back to the fish shop knowing they might get a home with someone who is not only without knowledge like myself but uncaring also.

In reply to Tokis' earlier post, as far as cleaning the filter out all I've been doing is replacing the filter media as by the Juwel guidelines, I.e. replacing the white filter pad once a week, the black carbon sponge once a month, and the nitrate removal and fine blue sponge once every 3 months, though the tank is currently only 2 months old so that has not yet been done.

This may be wandering off topic now, and I don't know if I should start a new thread for this, however, if I were to buy a second hand tank I may be able to get a larger tank to accomodate the fish even better. are there any golden rules when buying second hand tanks or anything to look out for?

I intend to start using 'Maidenhead Aquatics', a UK firm with lots and lots of branches, does anyone know them or can recommend them?

Thanks to all who have replied, I feel like such a goon for keeping them in such small room :unsure:

Thanks again,

Matt
 
Adding aquarium safe salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) will keep them from suffering nitrite poisoning. It's not the answer to bad water but it will at least help while you are doing other things to get your water quality in check.

Some fish are tolerant of salt while others are not, its best not to use salt unless you are positive that your fish can handle it as salt can be lethal or very bad for a lot of freshwater and coldwater fish.

This thread was about two goldfish... unless I missed something in one of the posts.
 
Maidenhead aquatics are pretty good, we get most of our fish and supplies from our local one. If you mention what area your Maidenhead store is in, someone may have had experience with that particular shop.
As for changing your filter weekly, there really is no need. The bacteria isn't getting a chance to build up properly so that could cause problems.
I clean my filter once a month but yours may need doing a bit more regular because of the waste build up. When you do a water change, use some of the dirty tank water to rinse the filter pads in. Never use tap water as this will kill off the bacteria.
 
Yeah I had worried that by changing it every week I was getting rid of the bacteria, but was just going by what the aquarium instruction CD said to be honest. I'll try just rinsing them out in the used water this week, thankyou for the advice :good:

Good idea by the way, sorry, should have been more specific; my nearest maidenhead aquatics store will be Ramsgate as I'm in Kent right on the coast. They seemed pretty helpful on the phone, am going to head over there on Monday to look at tank prices etc. Has anyone got experience with this store?
 
I've not had experience with that store but I know tank prices at Maidenhead are a lot cheaper compared to some places.
We brought a Fluval 1000 Duo (180 litres)from there for £169, that included filter, heater and a few little bits. We didn't buy a stand but they aren't too expensive.
Also brought a Fluval 800 Uno (90 litres) for £95, same bits as above and they are good tanks.
 
Could always look around for a second hand tank in local newpapers, and ebay.
Go the the buy sell and swap part of the forum.
Good luck.
 
I've not had experience with that store but I know tank prices at Maidenhead are a lot cheaper compared to some places.
We brought a Fluval 1000 Duo (180 litres)from there for £169, that included filter, heater and a few little bits. We didn't buy a stand but they aren't too expensive.
Also brought a Fluval 800 Uno (90 litres) for £95, same bits as above and they are good tanks.

Thats not a bad price at all - I had expected to pay around 250 quid. I already have a thick pine table on which to put the aquarium, so will just need to grab a tank and the works.

Does anyone have particular preferences or experiences with different tank makes? I was told Juwel and their black box filter, others told me external filters are best, and as you say you like fluval. are there any that should be avoided?

Thankyou for your feedback stang :good:

Edit: Thankyou for all your advice Wilder, it has been enlightening!
 

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