Rasboras Dying, Danios At Surface Of Water

[Freedom]

Yesterday morning, I had to leave early, returned home about 11 AM. Soon after, I noticed things amiss with my 50 gallon - all the fish resting on the bottom, no one moving. Now, the cory cats are normally very busy fish! So this was a huge issue. I did a test, I use the API freshwater test kit. Didn't even bother to wait for the results, started doing an 80% water change. Once the tubes sat, I checked and the ammonia was high - in the middle on the color chart - the nitrates and nitrites were at the maximum on the color chart, and the pH was low low low. I continued doing the water change. I have added lots of sponge media in my filter about 6 weeks back. As part of this water changes, I changed 2 of them, the 2 worst.
 
All 10 rummy nose tetras died last night.
 
The 10 cory cats are still morose and sit still on the tank bottom. I put in their food this morning, as usual. Some ate right off, a few needed one of the others to bump in to them to get them moving. I 'think' they all ate.
 
Th 3 mystery snails were still when I saw the issue at 11 AM yesterday, but since the huge water change, they seem to have returned to normal, all over the tank.
 
The lamb chop rasboras seem ok but they are staying together in one corner of the tank. I should have 10, can only find 8 or 9 (they move a LOT,) Since I found the 10 rummy nose at the filter intake, I think if a rasbora had passed, I'd find it there as well. I have been through the tank with my hand to find anything dead, especially through the green live plants, nothing found.
 
The pink kissing gourami seems ok.  And the danios seem alright, as well.
 
I usually do water changes on Wednesday, so I wasn't late. And when I tested the water on Sunday it was fine.
 
Tank seems 'empty' with the rummy nose gone, and the cory cats all sitting still on the bottom. Usually those corys are all over the place, they are busy fishies.
 
Is there anything I can do at this point to help the cory cats? Oh, and the tank is stinking up the whole room!
 
Any ideas, advice, suggestions, appreciated. Thank you.
 
Don't know what the deal is with this 50 gallon, I have no issues with the smaller tank. Of course it has been running for years, and the 50 is new to me, set up Feb 21st.  Someone suggested my substrate may be too deep.  Should I just remove some?  But my primary concern right now is the cory cats.
 
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and to provide any thoughts.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Water change was the right first move.


Next move is more water changes.


Keep ammonia, not ammonium, under 0.05 ppm. http/www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php. Use this calculator to keep an eye on that.


For nitrite, you can treat that with salt (sodium chloride) to keep that in check so that the fish don't suffer from brown blood disease.

 

[blueboy1]

correct thing to have done was an immediate water change now just monitor the tank closely and continue changing water, i dont think substrate is an issue as i found my fish life a varied depth so i have mine to a slight slope, if your tank has been going since feb and its now early may it may be the tank hasnt completely cycled and in space of few hours has crashed, just keep close eye and change water when ever possibly

 

[eaglesaquarium]

, if your tank has been going since feb and its now early may it may be the tank hasnt completely cycled and in space of few hours has crashed,

If the tank has been showing zeros for ammonia and nitrite, then it's been fully cycled. If you mean 'mature' I'd agree, although it would be close. Cycled though is another thing altogether.

There had to be some sort of an initial cause. Tank's cycles don't just crash for no reason after being established for a series of months.

 

[Freedom]

 

There had to be some sort of an initial cause. Tank's cycles don't just crash for no reason after being established for a series of months.
 

The person who suggested my substrate is too deep was getting at having it be anerobic, and a gas bubble was released?  Probably when I was tinkering with plants? 

Water change was the right first move.


Next move is more water changes.


Keep ammonia, not ammonium, under 0.05 ppm. http/www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php. Use this calculator to keep an eye on that.


For nitrite, you can treat that with salt (sodium chloride) to keep that in check so that the fish don't suffer from brown blood disease.

Just did another water change, about 30%, and added some salt.  Everyone is more active at the moment!    Would salt have such a quick impact?  Or maybe they just happy because of the current change as I was adding the new water. 
 
I'll keep testing it once a day for a few days, see how it goes.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Salt stops the uptake of nitrite into their bloodstream, so they can start to get the nitrite out of their system. Don't just add salt arbitrarily though, add it a level 10x the nitrite concentration.


There's a calculation to show exactly how much to add, but I don't have time to give that right now.

 

[Freedom]

No worries I have it,  and I know to mix the salt in a bowl of some tank water before adding it.  All done. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

How much salt did you add?

 

[Fishmanic]

the dying fish added to an already high ammonia reading---looks like you now have to do a fish-in cycle---perhaps your tank was not properly cycled from the get go or a dead fish that wasnt found right away caused a spike

 

[Freedom]

As title says, my lamb chop rasboras are dying now.
 
And the danios are staying at the very surface of the water.
 
Corys still staying still on the bottom.
 
Just did a reading.
 
pH 6.0
Ammonia .25
Nitrates and Nitrites both 0
 
 

 

[sawickib]

I would guess its the ammonia spikes, how long has the tank been established? Anything added recently?
 
Id do a large water change to get the ammonia to 0

 

[techen]

Mini cycle? Nitrates are zero? Would keep an eye on ammonia. Could be ammonia damage is whats keeping them at the surface.

 

[TallTree01]

I highly doubt .25 ammonia is cause is rasboras to die and danios to go to the surface. I think something else is at play.
Are there any symptoms other than death and gasping at surface? What is ph? Do the fish or their corpses look different to usual?

 

[the_lock_man]

I agree with TallTree, that ammonia at 0.25, and at a low pH of 6.0, is not going to harm anything, especially over a relatively short period of time. I am also conscious that this could be a false 0.25, since the API ammonia test is notoriously difficult to distinguish between 0.0 and 0.25ppm. On the other hand, it could be an ammonia spike that went very high, and you are just seeing the tail-end of it as the filter catches up.
 
Is the pH normally 6.0? If it is normally significantly higher then a fast swing downwards could have caused the issues.
 
On the face of it, 0ppm nitrates is an unusual reading - but again, the API nitrate test is notorious for giving false zero results, so that may again be a red herring. You would ordinarily only get 0ppm nitrate in a VERY heavily planted tank, or one that is uncycled AND there being no nitrate in tap water (which is very rare).
 
It'd be an interesting idea to take a sample of water to your LFS, and have them test for you, get them to write down the actual numbers of the results for you, not just tell you that "everything's fine", as that means diddly-squat.
 
Is there significant rippling of the water surface? In other words, is the water sufficiently oxygenated?
 
Have you added anything to the tank recently (ie more fish, new decorations, other chemicals)? Last time you did a water change, did you remember to use dechlorinator? How long has the tank been established, and how did you cycle the filter?

EDIT
 
OK, note-to-self, never read threads as stand-alone, but research a poster's recent history.
 
Freedom, can I just check, is this the same tank as in the thread you started yesterday? If so, it would have been a more sensible idea to have posted as a reply in that thread, rather than create a new thread.

 

[Freedom]

Good morning.
 
Yes, this was a continuation of the issue with the 50 gallon,  I suspect the salt was too much for the rasboras. 
 
I did a second 30% water change last night, and then went to bed.  I've been up almost an hour, afraid to turn on the light and see what has occurred.  I do see the gourami drifting about, and the red glolight danio.  OK let me go turn the lights on and see, will report back momentarily.
 
Edit: Lights are on.  3 rasboras survived.  The rest are dead, either at the intake or stuck in the plants.  So I'll clean up the tank.  Do I need to clean out anything in the filter media?  The ones stuck on the intake are pretty mushy. 
 
The corys are still sitting on the substrate.  The danios seem alright.  Not sure about the mystery snails.  I did locate all 3, but they are still at the moment. 

OK, note-to-self, never read threads as stand-alone, but research a poster's recent history.
 
Freedom, can I just check, is this the same tank as in the thread you started yesterday? If so, it would have been a more sensible idea to have posted as a reply in that thread, rather than create a new thread.

Sorry, I wasn't sure how to get attention to the issue last night, no one was in Chat when all this was happening.  I guess I should have included the link to the prior post as the first thing on this one.  Now I know.