Quick clarifying questions about Interpet No.7 (Copper EDTA and Formaldehyde based medication)

[TwoTankAmin]

The directions for this med clearly state: "it should not be used in aquariums that contain invertebrates," They also say to return carbon or zeiolite to the filter after the treatment. I know that for some meds there is information about how long they are effective after being dosed. Some are gone pretty fast while others persist for a while. I found nothing in this respect regarding this med.

Some folks will say that corys do not have scales. However, what they do have are scutes which are a modified form of a scale. The result is some meds should not be used with scaleless fish are not safe for corys while others meds which say not to use with scaleless fish are safe for corys. You should actually be able to contact the company and ask them this question specifically.

I saw no slime coat issues in your vid and only noticed one cory doing any flashing.

I would use this med instead which I can buy in the states, but I am not sure you can get it in the UK easily or at all. It has neither copper nor formaldahyde.

Flubendazole 10 % powder

Best for eliminating Hydra. Treats protozoa wasting disease, serious treatment for Velvet, enternal and external parasites, 1/4 teaspoon of 10 % powder treats about 20 gallons of water for most parasitic Protozoa. Eliminate Carbon filtration during treatment. Change most of the water after 10 days. Will not harm plants, Prolonged use will kill most all snails. ........

My guess is you need a vet to get this med in the UK

 

[MaloK]

Anti Parasite, Slime & Velvet plus will mainly target protozoan in their free swimming stage, it might not help that much with those attached to the fish.

Depending on the life cycle of the aggressor, it can take time before effectiveness become apparent.

 

[Essjay]

We can get flubendazole in the UK.

Kusuri Wormer Plus is powder flubendazole; NT Labs and AquaCare Anti Fluke & Wormer (probably the same med under different labels) are both liquids containing flubendazole.

Kusuri Wormer Plus 5g

Kusuri Wormer Plus 5g - Flubendazole based medication for the use against gill flukes, body flukes and intestinal helminths. Wormer plus can be used at any temperature and will not harm plants.

www.completeaquatics.co.uk

Aquarium Medicine - Anti-Fluke & Wormer from NT Labs

Belonging to the best range of 'Water Treatments' awarded by the Pratical Fishkeeping Manufacturers Poll. Anti-Fluke & Wormer is an easy to use, ready-mixed liquid formulation of flubendazole effective for treating intestinal worms and also for eradicating skin and gill fluke infestations.

www.ntlabs.co.uk

AquaCare Anti-Fluke & Wormer (20ml)

AquaCare Anti-Fluke & Wormer is an easy-to-use, ready-mixed formula of Flubendazole, effective for treating intestinal worms, skin and gill fluke infestations.

www.fishkeeper.co.uk

 

[Colin_T]

Remove any shrimp and snails that you want to keep.

Run the copper treatment for 2 weeks, then do some big (80-90%) water changes and gravel clean the substrate each time you do the water change. Then add carbon for a week. Then put shrimp and snails back in.

If they are still rubbing after that, use a deworming medication like Praziquantel or Flubendazole and use that once a week for 3-4 weeks.

 

[rebe]

Remove any shrimp and snails that you want to keep.

Run the copper treatment for 2 weeks, then do some big (80-90%) water changes and gravel clean the substrate each time you do the water change. Then add carbon for a week. Then put shrimp and snails back in.

If they are still rubbing after that, use a deworming medication like Praziquantel or Flubendazole and use that once a week for 3-4 weeks.

Thanks Colin, this is what I plan to do.
I added the medication back to the full dose yesterday, but there are a few pest snails (physella acuta) that I wasn't able to catch out at the time, that are still doing absolutely fine!
So the medication might not be as potent as I thought, or I have some crazy strong bladder snails

 

[MaloK]

My Bladder snails survived 15 days of Metronidazole with no problems and it really killed everything else, last year when I got my betta they also when trough a ich treat unaffected.

I wouldn't count on them as the canary in the mine shaft. They will probably survive the copper treat too.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have always used Flubendazole powder. I get it from Dr. Harrison's site along with excellent directions for mixing it. I prefer to avoid copper as long as that is possible,

Flubendazole is useful for controlling intestinal parasites, especially most of the protozoa, some nematodes and gill flukes. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish’s skin and gills. The drug does not have to be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for
treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection of the throat and gut. The pure compound has very limited solubility in water. Effective dosing is generally done with a medication powder form of 5 to 15% in some simple sugar like Sorbatol. I have available the
10% powder.

First things first, the tank water should be changed. It is not necessary to clean the tank, just change the water, as close to all of it as one can............

Add 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of the 10% medication for each 20 gallons of tank water. It may float for a while, but it needs to be mixed* into the tank water, swirl it in to dissolve. Hydra take two to three days to remove. Hexamita and other intestinal Protozoa may take three doses to remove completely over five to seven days to complete. Three days after the first treatment change the water again. Add another dose of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon/20 gal. to the fresh water. Change the water a second time after 5 to 7 days.

This should take care of everything. A third dose after three or four weeks will insure the
treatment, but usually isn’t necessary unless symptoms reappear.

Dr. Harrison says: "Dissolving the Flubendazole compound may be difficult. Two methods work for me,"

1. Take out a large cup or microwave safe bowl of tank water. Heat it in the microwave until it is too hot to touch - not boiling, just hot. Add the required 10% Flubendazole powder to hot water and stir to dissolve. Allow it to cool some and gradually pour the solution into the tank to be treated.
2. In a small measuring cup or large spoon, add the required 10% Flubendazole powder. Add several drops of unflavored Vodka to the powder to begin a slurry and then almost a solution. Don’t add more than half again as much powder you are working with. Stir in all well and then
thoroughly mix the slurry into the tank to be treated.

I chose method 2, because it requires that I have a bottle of Stolichnaya in the freezer at all times. So if I get parasites I can self medicate........

Last summer I had to treat one of my biggest clown loaches for wasting. U used the Flubendazole. But, I moved the fish from where it was in a 150 gal, tank to a 20 L. This fish was at least 10 inches and maybe more. I spent over a month treating it. It looked awful. Behind it's head it was so thin that if you pinched it bekow it's spine, your fingers could almost touch. The last two weeks it spent in the H tank I was not medicating. I was power feeding it so it would gain back a lot of the body mass that it had lost. It was returned to the 150 with the other clowns and is fine today.

I also get my Levamidole HCL from Dr. Harrison (he is a PhD not and MD.). He is also a lifelong fish keeper and breeder.

 

[Colin_T]

Thanks Colin, this is what I plan to do.
I added the medication back to the full dose yesterday, but there are a few pest snails (physella acuta) that I wasn't able to catch out at the time, that are still doing absolutely fine!
So the medication might not be as potent as I thought, or I have some crazy strong bladder snails

Check the expiry date on the medication to make sure it hasn't gone off.

If you have to buy medications, try to get them from a place that keeps them cool, dry and out of the sunlight.

 

[rebe]

Check the expiry date on the medication to make sure it hasn't gone off.

If you have to buy medications, try to get them from a place that keeps them cool, dry and out of the sunlight.

My bottle don't have an expiry date on it... There is a clear space that says "Expiry: ", so it should have one but there isn't. None anywhere else on the bottle either. Fantastic

My bottle is less than a year old, hopefully it's in date.


I won't be able to visit any shops in person this week, and I won't have the fish money for medication and shipping until Wednesday this week. I could order a new medication then, what do you think the chances are of it being expired?

I have loads of small shrimp from my cheap group of neocardina... I don't think it would sit right with me to test it with one

 

[Colin_T]

The medication should be fine if you got it in the last few months. If you got it more than a year ago it might be off. Use it anyway, hopefully it works. If there's no improvement after a week, get a new bottle.

 

[MaloK]

If it has expired, the Formaldehyde could have vented or lowered it's concentration, but the 3 other compound in the product are non-volatile and should have kept their potency.

 

[rebe]

I saw no slime coat issues in your vid and only noticed one cory doing any flashing.

I'm almost throwing medications at them blindly at this point. This group of corys have had issues with quite bad flicking/rolling fits.

I've tried to help them with:

• Heat
• Salt
• Levamisole
• Lots of cleaning and large water changes

While observing them, I thought that the sand/tiny pieces of dirt that stuck to them could be irritating them so I thought it could be an issue with their slime coats causing bits of sand to stick to them. You can see the sand sticking in the clip linked to post #11.

So I tried looking into what would cause the fish to be irritated to develop a slightly thicker slime coat for sand to stick to. The only chemicals I add to all my tanks/water regularly are Seachem Prime and Seachem Flourish Comprehensive. I only feed live black worms (my own culture), hatched BBS, frozen bloodworms, daphnia, mysis and artemia, Fluval Bug Bites and Oase Organix. I don't think that the sand is the issue, as I never had this problem with other fish that spend time on the bottom like black kuhlii loaches and my ancistrus, also my bolvian ram cichlid who is an "earth eater" and spends most of his time close to the bottom. With liquid API test kits I ruled out the following as irritants:

• pH
• GH & KH
• Ammonia
• Nitrite
• Nitrate

Since there were no visible external parasites or infections of any kind, protozoans were the last thing I can think of that would be bothering this fish.

So after filter cleaning, surface scrubbing and large water changes did nothing for the corys I decided to try a medication.


So in short:

• Medicating for protozoans after the process of elimination
• Thought process: Flicking > fish irritation > sand sticking > slime coat > protozoans (not chemicals, water parameters, food, conditions, cleanliness, visible parasites or inflictions, so process of elimination?)

(Edited for a spelling mistake.)

 

[rebe]

The medication should be fine if you got it in the last few months. If you got it more than a year ago it might be off. Use it anyway, hopefully it works. If there's no improvement after a week, get a new bottle.

So I looked back and I think I bought the medication around 5-6 months ago. I hope it works too, but I'll get another medication if it does nothing for them. I'll probably consult this forum first though before ordering anything, just to be safe.

If it has expired, the Formaldehyde could have vented or lowered it's concentration, but the 3 other compound in the product are non-volatile and should have kept their potency.

That's great to know. If I'm not mistaken, even the copper on its own should fix issues with protozoans? If that is indeed what my fish are suffering from

 

[Colin_T]

Considering what you have tried, external protozoan parasites is probably the problem and it fits the symptoms (flicking/ rubbing on objects, excess mucous).

Copper will kill any external protozoan parasites.

 

[rebe]

Considering what you have tried, external protozoan parasites is probably the problem and it fits the symptoms (flicking/ rubbing on objects, excess mucous).

Copper will kill any external protozoan parasites.

This makes me hopeful that I can solve this issue. It has felt impossible so far!
Thank you for all your insight and advice so far