Questions before I consider a Marine setup...

[nuckfluckchuckbuck]

Hi everyone,

I am still rather new here and have posted in the Tropical section. I have 5 aquariums so far with an aim to ultimately get to a marine setup.

However, during my recent research into the subject, I did come across something - be it rumour or fact - that really would decide whether I would consider a marine setup or not.

This "rumour or fact" then, is simply this. I have read from various sources that the majority of fish that end up in the marine trade are actual specimens from the wild - quite different to many tropical and coldwater types which are normally captive-bred, so you know that really most coldwater and tropical fish are "conditioned" to a contained environment... countless generations of breeding away from the wild would have seen to that.

I certainly don't wish to stir up any outrage at the question - I just personally wouldn't want a marine animal in one of my aquariums, knowing that it had first hand experience of being completely free, then it's suddenly put into a smaller space. No size aquarium can make up for that in my personal opinion.

Don't get me wrong - if this is indeed true, then it's not like I'm outraged that people have marine aquariums, I just personally wouldn't want one....

Hope that hasn't removed too many slime-coatings

Thanks everyone - it would just be really interesting to know... I may be completely wrong!

 

[parker313]

It completely depends on your supplier. At my lfs, they *only* sell tank bred and raised fish. If you order online, I know that at liveaquaria.com there's a whole section dedicated to tank bred fish. If that is a concern of yours, you can definitely avoid wild caught fish. Check with your lfs and see where their fish come from

Your question is a very good and thoughtful one!!

 

[Salt Freak]

Yes that is in fact true but there are some fish out there that are tank bred such as clownfish dottybacks fish are tank bred so you can by tank bred fish if you need to but there are also some fish that don't require as much space like the firefish isn't a active swimmer instead he stays in the water column and feeds. so he can do in a smaller tank.but if don't want to do a marine tank just because the fish aren't tank bred a fully respect that but you can do a tank that is tank-raised fish.

 

[nuckfluckchuckbuck]

Thanks for your replies

I'm glad to hear that it's not all bad news for me then - I'll just have to put a little more thought and research into it to ensure I only get captive-bred.

It's nice to know. Particularly about clown-fish too.... I suppose it was kind of obvious, but I have read several pieces which indicated wild clown-fish stocks were hit when Finding Nemo came out! I love clown fish too, so I'm glad to hear I should be able to find them captive-bred if I look hard enough.

Thanks again.

Now to decide what size tank I'll go for when I set it up....

Part of me says that I should simply buy the biggest tank that I can find (and that my floor can support! ) but the problem with that is obvious... the more space I have, the more it will cost in Liverock! (since this is the filtration method I would choose)

How much Liverock do you think it would take to successfully filter a 450litre (that's 98.9 UK gallons, or 118 US gallons) tank? And more to the point - how much do seriously think it would cost for that much Liverock?

 

[jflowers]

Tank size - the bigger the better, bigger means more stable. Expect to pay between £10 and £15 per kilo for LR. Generally 1kg per two gallons, but that also depends on your stocking level.

Good luck

Jon

 

[parker313]

Live Rock is definitely going to be a big cost factor. At about 1lb rock per gallon, that's about 120 lbs of rock! Here, at my lfs I can get LR for about $7/lb. So, that would be $840 just for rock (I'm sorry, I don't know the conversion rate to pounds).

 

[nuckfluckchuckbuck]

Thanks Jon.

OK - so I'm getting this all right so I can make sure I budget enough to get everything I need for the tank;

I'll buy a Juwel Vision 450 and will need around 50 Kilos of Liverock... that's about £500 - £550 in Liverock.

I also know off-hand that I'll need a decent powerhead (isn't that just a fancy name for something that pumps water!?) to power the water through the rock... how much could I expect to pay for a powerhead for such a large tank?

And finally, what else will I need in addition to Liverock, the tank and the powerhead? I have read details on all sorts of other producst and systems such as Berlin systems, protein skimmers etc... but I think I may be over-complicating things... are these things only needed if you opt for filtration other than Liverock?

Thanks everyone so far - by the way..... if these questions are already answered elsewhere in detail, feel free to tell me off for not looking around the forum hard enough, and I'll see what I can find.....

 

[canyoubelieveit]

You will need a few powerheads positioned at different parts of the tank for maximum air/water flow. I would suggest around 1200 gallons per hour for you tank... That could cost you about £70! Of course I know a person that does 900gph for their 30 gallon (US) tank! So... It's just depends on how much air flow you want for you tank. I have read 10 gph per gallon of water is a general rule. I have 600 gph for my 45 gallon tank.

About protein skimmers... will you want a hang on filter, will you have a sump to put your skimmer in?

 

[Ed4567]

From what I've heard Juwel tanks are more suitable for freshwater than marine tanks although I dont have one myself, due to the internal filter and a hood which is hard to fit extra lighting into.

 

[Navarre]

Ok my appologies for not welcoming you to the marine forum. I have been lax lately! )

If you are anywhere near warrington then i can put you in touch with a supplier that sells live rock for £7 per kilo (not delivered).

This is grade "A" and is irrespective of type., figi, tonga branching, carabean plating. all £7 per kilo.

100 gallons will need about 50 kilos minimum so this will make a considerable saving.

If you are interested then let me know and i will give you the details.


As for the issues of wild caught and captive bred specimens, this is tricky with marines because some are stillseemingly impossible to breed. however, progress is being made all the time, 20 years ago marines were impossible to breed and raise, now we see clowns, dottybaks and various blennys and gobies, shrimps etc are all met with sucess. even some dwarf angels are being raised now (FLames for example). although keeping wild specimens is a little contentious, its these very people that make the progress with experimentatio and the constant battle to learn about the species to try and achieve a sustainable catpive bred population.

Also.. consider the life on a reef. its not all pretty and disney nemo etc.. its a hell hole where you eat or be eaten. most fish will never reach maturity and there are arguments that a captive bred fishwill actually live a longer life than if it wwere to live on the cuthroat envrinment of a reef. There are many fish that would probably not even venture outside the cinfines of a tank if they were in the wild, clown stay close to their host at all times as they are poor swimmers, grammas and similar fish remain in rockwork and venture only feet fromit for safety. all thee fish i would consider fine even if wild caught as they would not want any larger in the reef. I am of the very strong opinion that fish should be kelt in the right size tank. people that keep tang in less than 100 gallons are not doingit any favours, etc . I do admire your resolve on keeping only tank bred species however and i applaude you for it. wlecome to the forum, I really wish you luck with your future setup.

 

[nuckfluckchuckbuck]

Thanks for the info Navarre - It will probably be another month or two before I gather enough funds for everything... I'll buy the tank first, as that will be the most expensive item then I shall definitely be PM'ing you for some Liverock details

As for the opinion on the Juwel tank - what does everyone else think? Will the lighting be adequate, or would it just be too close to the water?

Unfortunately for me, myself and Mrs Nuckfluck are also a keen cat-fanciers (infact - we just love animals ) and have 3 cats... 2 of them are Bengals and they have a particular fascination for water (they join you for baths if you're not careful keeping the bathroom door shut!).... open top tanks around them is a 100% no-no so I need something like a Juwel which will prevent them from getting in.

Does that kill any hope I have of a marine? Are they strictly open-top?

 

[jflowers]

Certainly doesn't kill the idea of a marine, just that you will not be able to keep some corals, but there are still some low light corals that you could keep. Do a google search on converting jewel tanks to marine, there are a few sites I have seen, just havn't bookmarked any

Jon

 

[Navarre]

Juwels can work as marines. I had a vision 180 softy tank and it was very successful. I have a friend who has a rio 180 softy tank and this is also just as nice.

I did remove the hood with mine because i eventually upgraded to T5s and eventually halides, however my friends rio 180 still has the original hood and light fixtures that were supplied with the tank and they are doing pretty well with the low light corals in their tank.

 

[andywg]

You can always custom make a hood. My 6foot FW tank has a couple of halides in itbut is still enclosed to keep the cats out.

Mine needs remaking to allow a larger gap between the halides and the water but it's not too bad. I believe that if you ensure any haldes you get have the ballast seperat to the light (so that you can mount it elsewhere, like in the base) and you don't mind having a somewhat taller hood you should get away with it no probs. If heat were to become a problem you could either install computer cooling fans into the hood (but this may mean increased water top-ups) or a chiller (but this may cost a lot).

 

[sammydee]

Yes I would strongly recommend a DIY hood. You can cram loads of t-5s in there, which would be just fine for any corals you want to keep. Don't be fooled into thinking metal halide is the only way to go with corals.