Question concerning LR and limestone

[jpmcca01]

Intro: I am thinking of starting a reef tank, but I really dont want to buy a bunch of LR because by buying LR you are helping to destroy the world's aquatic ecosystem. I have read about buying regular limestone and putting it into a tank with just a little bit of LR and eventually it will seed the limestone.

Questions: Is there anyway to seed a tank without using LR? If not, how much live rock at a minimum would it take to seed a 50gal tank? What is the time table for doing this?

The more specific the answers are the more I would appreciate it. I really would love a reef tank but I dont like the idea that people are destorying reefs around the world just for this hobby. THANKS!

 

[reefboy2002]

hi
its currently 1kg of live rock to 2 gallons
u could get away with 10kg of live rock and some reactavated reefbones
www.reefcreation.co.uk sells reactavated reefbones its about £115.00 for 20kg
and thats been in his home setup for a coupl of months then taken out and sold to u that will have crittters etc in it
also dont use limestone its not porus its sold rock out of quarrys so there no holes or anything for bacteria to colonise in which would result in poor filteration
also this tank would u like to put up wot fish u want to keep
and wot corals
also wot lighting will u be having

cheers ritchie

 

[ste2k3]

taking live rock from the ocean is not destroying the ecosystem. as corals grow (hard corals) the tops get broken off by storms. these fall down into the fore reef or lagoon. they then get colinised by critters and algaes etc. when you collect this, the coral still grows and gets snapped of and makes more live rock. so it is an on going process.

 

[ostrow]

ste2k3, that is one view on an extremely controversial issue. The tens of thousands of pounts of live rock removed monthly from Fiji and Marshall can only be having a large, negative effect on some of the last remaining extensive reefs in the world. As for corals, because it is so easy to frag most corals, I am wholeheartedly opposed to removing corals from any reefs. I do not buy corals in stores, and will not buy any from places that import them from reefs. Frags and aquaculture are the way to go on corals, IMO, as long as the reefs are threatened.

Now, on the original question. jpm your id doesn't show location. Over here, the rule is 1lb of rock to 1G of water. For a 50G tank, you could get 50lbs of "base" rock -- dead rock. If you look on ebay you'll also see liverock "kits" for making rock that will encrust with corraline, house critters, etc. But washed up rock from reefs or otherwise "base" rock is fine.

If you go that route, one decent sized cured rock (even a half-pounder) will seed the tank and in a couple months you'll have purple growing everywhere, and critters multiplying even sooner. You can get that one rock from a buddy's tank rather than buying at a store. While you are at it get some of the live sand too.

Or, you can look at the various reef fora on the Web and find someone getting out of the hobby and buy their whole setup, or if they are parting out buy their rock, sand, whatever you want. You'll save bagloads of money and not be contributing to further reef destruction.

HTH

 

[jpmcca01]

Thanks everyone for the input, especially ostrow. That answered my question perfectly. BTW i am located in Louisville, KY in USA. I am still going to do alot more research before dabbling with SW reef tank as there is alot more to it than Tropical. Think I will look into my local SW aquarium society for help if need be.
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!

 

[ste2k3]

I would just like to say that CITES monitor the collection of corals and have marine biologysts working on the reefs all year round. If you take small islands such as the maldives, some of the islands have a population of only 50-100 people etc etc. on these small islands, the local people need building materials for roads houses etc. it is a fact thay rip out large chunks of LIVE coral for building uses. the best thing that corals can have on a natural reef is SPACE. on reefs, corals fight using toxins, they can only grow to a certain size and new corals don't have a chance of surviving. by giving a reef space, it allows a largr diversity of life and not one dominant speciese.

all i am saying is that as long as the coral removal is monitored, then there will be no harm done. I don't know about the states, but there is very little illigal coral enters the Uk because of a number of factors. it is only the iligal collection of coral that may damage the reefs.

 

[Sher]

Harvesting the worlds reefs for a hobby...does that statement not in itself make you scratch your head? With aquaculturing (like ostrow mentioned) there is no need to carry on with this practice.

I've been involved in this hobby for more years than I care to mention and I have seen it evolve and change greatly over those years. With the advent of new ideas and awareness come better ways. Aquaculturing being one of those ways.

on these small islands, the local people need building materials for roads houses etc. it is a fact thay rip out large chunks of LIVE coral for building uses.

While this may very well be true, it is not in my opinion an apt comparison to a "hobby" that is worldwide. An island of a hundred or so odd people that avail themselves of the natural resources is a pittance when compared to the marine hobby market on the whole, and the marine market grows daily. It has boomed tremendously on a global scale in just the last few years. Movies like 'Finding Nemo' are causing it to boom even more lately. The clownfish has become the new dalmation (re: the release of '101 dalmations' everyone had to have a spotted pup) and too many children beg to own their own "Nemo". LFS worldwide report sales of clowns through the roof since the release of this cartoon. I recently read a document that stated one LFS reported a daily order exceeding 600 clowns. 600! I find that beyond scary. It increases the pressure on production of fish, LR and anemones. This in turn increases the chances of hardcore harvesting of all of the above. Not to mention how many fish and anemones are dying daily via the ignorance of overly excited marine newbies that have no understanding of what it takes to care for these animals and have run out and purchased the much wanted "Nemo" before they ever even consider educating themselves on "Nemo's" needs.

I would remind people of the practices that were common in the past that have changed or are changing - cyanide collection of fish, explosive collection of fish, adding dye to anemones, fish needling, the list goes on and on. These practices were once overlooked, not really scrutinized, and "legal". The word "legal" does not equate to the word harmless. In recent years reef harvesting is also going the way (largely) of those practices of the past and being replaced with aquaculturing.

This is indeed a most controversial subject.

I do not buy corals in stores, and will not buy any from places that import them from reefs. Frags and aquaculture are the way to go on corals, IMO, as long as the reefs are threatened.

I agree 100%. Obviously I would considering all I wrote above.

If anyone has not done so already, please visit http/www.garf.org

 

[ostrow]

I'm staying out of this one. As I said, it is a controversial topic. But one thing needs mention: both the UK and US allow legal import of reef rock and coral. It is legal to harvest in Fiji and Marshall reefs. Destruction can happen that is legal. Nobody is taking coral from the Virgin Islands because of the devastating personal risks.

jpm: if you are in the states, really you should scout the selling forum on reefcentral.com. There you will be able to find all the live rock you'll ever need and more ... someone will be selling sometime soon within a reasonable drive. Also you may find a whole setup.

 

[Sher]

Controversial item, yes, very. Hopefully though this and any other controversial topic can be discussed with logic and with an angle toward sharing information.

For the record, lest some person reading my other post jumps to the wrong conclusion, the post was not made to discredit ste2k3 in the least. We merely have a differing opinion on the topic as I am sure we have differing opinions on many topics. Viva le difference! It makes the world go 'round.